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Beijing's'bird nest' stadium hidden in soup of pollution



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Published Date: 17 April 2008
IT STANDS more than 230ft high, has 91,000 seats and cost £250 million – yet yesterday the "Bird's Nest" stadium, newly-built icon of the Beijing Olympics, was scarcely visible from half a mile away because of pollution.
International media gained access to the structure for the first time yesterday and it will admit the first paying customers tomorrow.

Beijing organisers have said stringent pollution controls will go into effect no later than 20 July. This mea
ns closing cement factories and foundries, halting hundreds of building projects and banning about half of Beijing's 3.3 million vehicles.

The International Olympic Committee has said it will postpone outdoor endurance events if air quality is poor, and Jacques Rogge, its president, has acknowledged that athletes' performances might be "slightly reduced" because of pollution.

Ethiopia's Haile Gebrselassie, who holds the world marathon record, said last month he would not run in Beijing on health fears, while Australia is to test all its team members for asthma before leaving for the Games.

Yesterday, with 114 days to go until the opening ceremony, finishing touches were still being applied to the stadium, with lines being painted on the running track and some seats yet to be fixed in place.

Workers and a large band of volunteers were reluctant to talk to the media, but several said they thought the structure was "amazing".

From the outside, the stadium overwhelms everything else, even the neighbouring Water Cube swimming venue.

Beijing police have cracked down on cars stopping for people to take photographs. Curious pedestrians still line a 12ft-high wire fence to have a look.

"When I first saw the stadium, I didn't know what it was," said Duan Jingxuan, who was landscaping a pine forest bordering a pond near the stadium. Like thousands of migrant workers who have come to Beijing to build Olympic venues, Duan earns about £76 a month and sends most of it home to his family in central China.

"I'm proud to work here and it shows China is getting richer," he said.

However, Ai Weiwei, a Chinese artist who was a consultant on the project, has criticised the stadium. He has likened it to a "fake smile" designed to hide social and political problems.

From the inside, the interwoven steel structure that gives the stadium its nickname is largely hidden by a membrane that will keep the rain off many of the seats and prevent unsightly shadows ruining television pictures on sunny days.

The original roof was cut out of plans in 2004 as a cost-cutting measure and the Beijing meteorological office is experimenting with rain-prevention measures in case the weather spoils the opening ceremony.

The stadium should have been finished along with the other venues by the end of 2007, but the completion date was first postponed to the end of March and then to the middle of April.

Organisers said the complexity of preparing the stadium for what is expected to be a lavish opening ceremony on 8 August was responsible for the delays.

It was the only significant delay in a building programme that presented a clear contrast with Athens 2004, where the last licks of paint were being applied only days before the Games began.

There was no sign of where the Olympic cauldron will be placed. That, along with details of the opening ceremony, are being kept secret.

Officials confirmed in January that two workers had died during construction of the stadium, denying media reports of at least ten fatalities.

The first event to take place at the stadium is the IAAF men's 20km walking event tomorrow. Sunday's Good Luck Beijing marathon will also finish at the Bird's Nest. An athletics event from 22-25 May will be the first thorough test of the stadium's ability to host top-level track-and-field events.

After the Games, an auction will be held for naming rights, that could result in a foreign company attaching its brand to the stadium.

In the past month, Beijing's plans to use the Olympics as a public-relations coup have been sullied by protests along the Olympic torch relay route.

Pro-Tibet and human-rights demonstrators have focused world attention on China's policies.

Protesters are also expected to stage demonstrations during the Games, testing China's ability to portray itself as a modern, sophisticated nation, despite spending about £20 billion to remake the capital into a modern, skyscraper-filled city.

But organisers, such as Liang Gang, the deputy press manager for the venue, are confident that everything will fall into place once the Games begin.

"Here in the stadium, they (the athletes] will concentrate on the competition, on the basic things of sports and not the other things," he said.

China's icon of steel

ENVISAGED as the iconic centrepiece of the Beijing Olympics, the "Bird's Nest" stadium is an architectural expression of China's pride and burgeoning confidence.

Although its distinctive twisted steel exterior sprang from the minds of fêted European architects Jacques Herzog and Pierre de Meuron, some feel the Swiss have successfully put a modern twist on local artistic tradition.

The army of mostly migrant construction workers, who built the arena in 52 months, were given a clear indication of the importance of the £250 million project.

"You have written a brilliant page in China's architectural history," the president, Hu Jintao, told them during a visit to the site in 2006.

After winning the right to host the Games, China quickly made clear it would be looking to make a statement with its showpiece stadium. Designs were solicited, and the 13 delivered in March 2003 included Herzog and de Meuron's proposal.

Chinese architect Li Xinggang, who worked with them, said practical matters were important. "It was able to offer spectators the best balance of distance and clear view," he said. "It was the best form for a sporting venue."



The full article contains 988 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 16 April 2008 10:30 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: 2008 Olympics
 
1

OskarTheTalkingBoxerDog,

glasgow 17/04/2008 00:58:09
I think it`s rubbish to say that the Chinese dont like Tibet.Every time I pass Ladbrokes there are lots of them there
2

GalacticCannibal,

Murrieta; . CA.....a place in the Sun 17/04/2008 01:10:12
Beijing's'bird nest' stadium hidden in soup of pollution
-------------------------------------

Beijing's humidity plus the pollution will cause most visitors to the Olympics respiratory problems.

Humidity in Beijing in August can be stifling and their pollution has gotten worse each year.

If U go to Beijing, wear best quality medical face mask, u will be glad U did.

But a far more deadly threat to visitors is the H5N1 bird flu virus.

A new strain of the killer H5N1 bird flue virus, has emerged in China and found in their chickens and ducks. A very high percentage of near 3%

Best advise is to : not eat chicken or duck when in CHINA. .

There is no known cure for this virus which kills its human victim in 72 hours after the person is infected.

The CCP/PLA will crush any public report on this new strain of H5N1, until the 2008 Olympics are over.

For fear of scaring away all the foreign visitors.

The problems in Tibet are minuscule to the CCP/PLA compared with a public panic ,over their H5N1 bird flu virus, should a foreigner get infected.

Happy face mask day dudes.

GC
3

Mashimaro,

China 17/04/2008 04:06:24
What would you know dude, you haven't even left home yet. Dude, when you're 38 and sleeping between Star Wars sheets - the force just isn't with you.
Your usual anti China bull isn't going to work.

#1 Gave me a laugh, thanks.
4

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 17/04/2008 04:31:31
"South African news agencies reported Wednesday that a Chinese cargo ship trying to enter the port in Durban, South Africa, was carrying arms headed for Zimbabwe, though it was unclear whether the shipment was related to the current political crisis."

Probably Chinese Machettes to help Zimbabwe become another Rwanda.

Don't you just love these evil little b@astards.

5

scotia,

Caribbean 17/04/2008 05:21:19
I was in Beijing last month and the stadium is amazing. #2 I had chicken and duck many times while there and still here to talk about it, stop trying to scare the poor tourists.
6

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 17/04/2008 05:33:55
#4 KampungHighlander,
It was actually a load of sharpened chopstisks, since nobody in Zimbabwe knows how to use chopsticks. Now they can just spear the food, saving all that frustration.

To the 'Bird Nest' issue, personally I think it is an awful waste of money, with our population needing more accessible health care and a better quality of education. That money, and all the rest spent on the Olympics, would go a long way to help out our massive population to cover their basic needs. When the Olympics come to London four years from now, you will see that the general population will not benefit from the Olympics in any way, and that the country will just go deeper into debt, and for what? The 1976 Olympics in Montreal, Canada, still haven't been paid for, what a terrible waste of money just to show off a country. Every government world wide needs to look at their priorities, and the Olympics most definitely don't fall in that category.
7

postmark54,

Chongqing City, China, 17/04/2008 05:53:24
#2 GalacticCannibal,
The HN51 is definitely a global worry and problem, and in no way can be blamed on China. Ducks fly everywhere, and can spread it anywhere, and could have been infected anywhere, from migratory birds. Why do you insist on blaming China for all the bad things? It is impossible to pinpoint where it all started, but China is so easy to point your finger at. Do we have health problems here? sure we do, but we too are worried about the problem and are looking for solutions, which is difficult when the source travels globally, and you can't put the birds into isolation. It would be nice if you concentrated on helping to find a solution, rather than to point fingers.
Also, face masks are not going to do anything, they're a 'bandaid' solution, and give you a false sense of security. The pollution problem here is far worse than you think. A gas mask might be a better solution, but not feasible.
8

Mashimaro,

China 17/04/2008 06:26:37
#4 as opposed to the weapons the US is pouring into Somalia, Israel etc etc?
9

postmark54,

chongqing, China 17/04/2008 06:40:34
#8 Mashimaro,China,
Not to mention Taiwan.
10

Mashimaro,

China 17/04/2008 07:02:20
Inflammatory writing again. The ship was "trying" to enter Durban. What, couldn't it find Durban? Was the SA Navy holding it off?
None of the above. The legitimate arms shipment was waved through.
11

Mashimaro,

China 17/04/2008 07:10:55
Postmark, dude, you must be chewing the air up where you are, and walking on the water.
12

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 17/04/2008 07:14:31
#10 MushiMushi

Legitimate arms for a illegitimate government?

Just part of China's ongoing efforts at spreading peace and harmony.
13

,

17/04/2008 07:18:08
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14

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 17/04/2008 07:25:59
#6

"To the 'Bird Nest' issue, personally I think it is an awful waste of money, with our population needing more accessible health care and a better quality of education."

I suggest that you vote them out at the next election.

Oh I forgot, you don't have elections. I guess your masters don't think you capable of making those sort of choices.

How does it feel to be a slave?
15

,

17/04/2008 07:45:51
Comment Removed By Administrator
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16

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 17/04/2008 07:56:08
Access will be blocked as the torch is borne along the avenue linking the presidential palace to the famous India Gate landmark in New Delhi.

Commandos from an elite anti-terror unit, paramilitary forces and thousands of police will be on duty, the Press Trust of India reported.

India strongly rejected Chinese demands, however, that the torch route be "sanitized" of India's 150,000-strong Tibetan exile community, by which they required a ban on congregation near the curtailed 3 km route.

In response Indian officials said India was a democracy, and "a wholesale ban on protests was out of the question".

Contradicting some other reports, Indian officials also refused permission to the "Olympic Holy Flame Protection Unit". The combined effect is a "rapid deterioration" of relations between India and China.

This leg of the relay is most notable for how many have refused the Flame of Shame.

Indian national football captain, Baichung Bhutia refused to take part in the Indian leg of the torch relay, citing concerns over Tibet.

Rahul Gandhi, son of the Congress President Sonia Gandhi and scion of the Nehru-Gandhi family, also refused to carry the torch.

Soha Ali Khan, the Bollywood actress, withdrew today citing “very strong personal reasons”.

The noted Indian social activist and a retired Indian Police Service (IPS) Officer Kiran Bedi refused to participate saying "she doesn’t want to run in the event as ‘caged woman’."

Famous cricketer Sachin Tendulkar has dropped out citing a groin injury, which is a nice way of saying this torch relay is a pain in the B@llocks.
17

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 17/04/2008 08:12:21
Mr Tendulkar, however, is arguably the biggest international sports star, except perhaps for Diego Maradonna, the former Argentina footballer, to have pulled out of the torch relay so far.

The cricketer’s decision came as a huge blow to Indian authorities as they tread a fine line between forging closer ties with China and upholding India’s strong democratic traditions.

The original plan was to take the torch on a six-mile route from the Red Fort, former seat of the Mughal Emperors, to India Gate, an arched war memorial in the centre of New Delhi.

But it has now been cut to just a 1.8 mile route along Rajpath, a straight avenue flanked by wide lawns which leads from Rashtrapati Bhawan, the presidential palace, to India Gate.

Indian authorities had also planned to close off the entire area to the general public, allowing only schoolchildren to watch the relay from behind metal barriers and phalanxes of police.

But those plans were thrown into doubt when the city government announced that it would not send schoolchildren to the event.

It is now unclear who will watch it apart from the estimated 15,000 security personnel to be deployed along the route.
18

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 17/04/2008 08:15:03
They include Delhi police, army troops, paramilitary forces and snipers posted on surrounding buildings. Helicopters will patrol overhead and the nearest Metro stations will be closed, along with all roads to the city centre.

Some 400 Delhi police commandos, dressed in blue tracksuits emblazoned with DP, will be closest to the torch as it proceeds along Rajpath.

The Tibetan parliament-in-exile is organising an alternative torch relay in eastern Delhi tomorrow morning and says it expects about 3,000 people to take part. It says it will not try to disrupt the Rajpath procession as the Dalai Lama, who fled to India from Tibet in 1959, is not calling for a boycott of the relay or the Beijing Games.

But the radical Tibetan Youth Congress and other groups say they will try to protest around the Chinese Embassy, India Gate and other areas of Delhi today.

About 30 TYC members staged a short protest on Rajpath yesterday, carrying a mock Olympic torch along most of the planned route before being bundled away by Indian police.

Another 100 Tibetans protested outside the heavily guarded Chinese Embassy this morning, wearing “Free Tibet” headbands, shouting “No Olympics in China” and waving posters saying “No torch in India”.

Indian police quickly broke up the protest, dragging about two dozen Tibetans onto waiting vans, but several escaped and pledged to stage bigger protests today.
19

paulr,

edinburgh 17/04/2008 08:35:03
stringent pollution controls will go into effect no later than 20 July.
And then they will be removed the day after the Olympics end..
20

Draco Was a Wimp,

Edinburgh 17/04/2008 09:00:23
#20 paulr

Yes, I was wondering about that. A government that more or less says 'sod the locals' health', as long as the regime looks OK to foreigners, doesn't seem to be very nice, despite what some of the posters here say.
21

Mashimaro,

China 17/04/2008 09:37:39
#21 #20 You're right, that is exactly what will happen. But there is nothing you can do about it. China needs to resolve China's problems. Can you imagine if you were going through your industrial revolution and Chinese people were down your throats telling you not to do this, or having to do that?
What if the French had decided that you too needed a revolution and so fomented discontent among the masses?
22

,

17/04/2008 10:00:07
Comment Removed By Administrator
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23

Mashimaro,

China 17/04/2008 10:12:11
It would be so nice if the finger pointers would stop exporting their e-waste to my country.
24

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

17/04/2008 10:45:43
http://216.171.217.95/chendu/

Entertainment in China
25

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 17/04/2008 10:59:18
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9A02E3D9133DE433A25754C0A9639C94649ED7CF

Entertainment in Scotland
26

Guga II,

Rockall 17/04/2008 11:24:24
#25 Cankers. Thanks for that URL. I hope that Mushy Marrow (The Rabid Rabbit), and Skidmark had a look at it too. Though no doubt Mushy, in particular, will deny everything about it, him being a paid, but lowly, mouthpiece and cadre of the gangster, criminal Chinese government. Of course, if he doesn't toe the party line, he could well be thrown into the cage with a dog. That would be worth watching, a large dog versus the Rabid Rabbit.

Incidentally Mushy, as regards your post #8 "as opposed to the weapons the US is pouring into Somalia, Israel etc etc?" What about your gangster government pouring weapons into Zimbabwe, Burma and the Sudan? Is that another example of "China needs to resolve China's problems." (your #22).

Or how about China pouring a million plus Han Chinese into Tibet, so far; and pouring nearly 300,000 PLA thugs into Tibet, so far? Another example of China resolving China's problems?

Your late gangster leader, Mousey Dung, was responsible for the deaths of around 40 million Chinese, and your current gangster leader Hu Jintao is trying to emulate him, but making up the numbers by killing off the Tibetans too.

27

,

17/04/2008 11:56:56
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28

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 17/04/2008 11:58:16
The now famous Peoples Armed Police Torch Attendants have been enjoying themselves immensely. In the morning they went to Plaza de Mayo to taunt the Mother of the Disappeared followed by a seminar at the Argentine Navy’s famous Escuela de Mechanico to learn the finer points of training and handling Rape Dogs.

The afternoon was given over to indulging in hedonistic pleasures in the Pampas riding Bareback with Argentina’s famed Gauchos; this was followed by a fireside supper of Barbequed Argentine Beef Tube Steaks. In the evening it was off to downtown Buenos Aires for Tango Dancing to the wee hours.

They had been looking forward to this leg of the relay very much. Their cold secret policeman’s hearts secretly desires the warm easy sexuality that Latin culture embraces. Many of them actually keep photos of Antonio Banderas or Julio Iglesias in their lockers back at headquarters in Beijing.
29

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 17/04/2008 11:59:46
Sadly the Guardians of the Flame of Shame will find Pakistan a little boring. They will have very little to do as the torch is carried for a number of laps in the empty Stadium.

After their wild nights of revelry in other locales their only fun will be seeing who can run up the biggest minibar bill in their hotel room.

They are still recovering from Qi Dong overdoses they experienced after visiting Dar Es Salam’s famous bush meat market. They where seen snapping up all the exotic Barbequed members of various African wildlife they could get their hands on.

Such delicacies as Lion Loin, Hyena Hyman, Gazelle Gonads, Rhino Rod, Cheetah Chub and Baboon Balls are normally to expensive for the average Secret Policeman and reserved only for senior cadre of the CCP.

Their has been some comment by the Chinese Ministry of Barbarian Affairs taking the Western media to task for its coverage of the Peoples Armed Police torch protection squad. “Stop the PAP smear.” They are quoted as saying.
30

,

17/04/2008 12:14:20
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
31

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 17/04/2008 12:30:28
#15 KampungHighlander,
If you had bothered to read the rest of my comments, you would have seen that I mentioned that this is a problem everywhere, and not just a China issue, but I keep forgetting how much you hate China, and the reason you're no longer here is probably because they kicked your sorry @ss out of China. Our gain, Indonesia's loss.
32

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 17/04/2008 12:38:26
#32 Bob Christie,
Why don't you get your head out of your @ss and start thinking for yourself? Your western countries are the ones causing chaos globally as we speak, we are taking care of internal problems here in China, and we keep it at home. Clean up your act and don't be such a busybody, we don't need your two cent's worth. Get a life you miserable loser. Each and every one of your comments mean squat to China, so keep them to yourself. You obviously lack any kind of education, whether it is academic or life taught. Your opinions carry no weight and hold no water. Now go back to scrubbing your toilet.
33

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 17/04/2008 12:51:39
#33 Postmark

You've got me all wrong, I like China and I like Chinese people. What I don't like are moral relativists like yourself being the self appointed apologists for one of the last truly evil regimes in power on this planet.

What I don't like is the fact that the Chinese Government is not satisfied to deny their own people freedom. That they have to go out and support evil little copies of themselves in Sudan, Burma, North Korea and Zimbabwe.

What I don't like is the level of arrogance that would think that after spreading all this suffering and misery around the world that all will be forgiven as long as they continue to export us lots of poor quality taudry crap.

But don't confuse that with a dislike of the Chinese people, If I had to some up my feelings I would have to say that I feel pity for the Chinese. Pity that they are under the boot of a vicious amoral regime.
34

postmark54,

17/04/2008 12:52:01
#11 Mashimaro,
I imagine the Chongqing isn't much better than Lanzhou, which they say is China's worst. Between the fog and the smog, we seldom see the mountains here, but I love this place just the same, and am in no way complaining. Chongqing, despite its massive size, has so much charm and character, which I found lacking somewhat in Shanghai. Shanghai is far too modern and westernized to my liking, where as Chongqing is still much more of the real China. Pollution is a part of life here, but I will never let it stop me from enjoying every minute here.

Also, thanks for your tip on trying to teach me how to read Chinese, but it is a daunting task. We from the west think different and therefore don't see what you see when trying to read your language, and I keep my mind open to try to see what you pointed out, but so far I just can't see it. Thanks again, I will keep on trying.
35

James Donald,

Newbridge 17/04/2008 12:52:09
#34 postmark54,Chongqing, China - "Your opinions carry no weight and hold no water" - Like your comments are anything other than propaganda and bile. You are not going to win any hearts and minds with a snotty attitude like this.
Are you boycotting France yet?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7347821.stm
36

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 17/04/2008 12:58:03
#35 KampungHighlander,
Why is it then that I have never seen you talk positive or nice about China?
As far as the poor quality of our goods is concerned, it can't be that bad when you see the insane demand for our goods.
37

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 17/04/2008 13:21:03
#38 Postmark

The reason you don't see me heaping praise on China at the moment is that it is not what China needs if it wants to progress and become a better place for its citizens to live. What China needs is a little dose of reality, China needs to wake up from five ringed fantasy that it is living under.

I like China, in fact I particularly like Shanghai. It was one of the most energetic places I have ever lived. I have a personal fascination for Shanghai's colonial history. In fact after the real estate market corrects just like the Stockmarket is doing I plan to buy a villa in the old French Quarter.
38

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 17/04/2008 13:26:16
#37 James Donald,
Get a life you Communist hater and I don't believe in childish boycotts. France just happens not to have anything to my liking, and far too expensive. I do think and therefore come up with good decisions, and don't get brainwashed by anybody. We are allowed to think for ourselves, that's why I love this country so much.
39

James Donald,

Newbridge 17/04/2008 13:41:39
#41 postmark54,Chongqing, China - Calm down to a frenzy Bolshie boy you are starting to believe your own propaganda. If you love Red China so much and don't care what the Bob Christie post, why bother posting comments at a decadent Western Imperialist newspaper site? French goods are becoming more expensive even to the British because of the strength of the Euro. How many weeks would the average Chinese toiler have to work to afford a bottle of Channel No 5?
40

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 17/04/2008 13:41:46
37 James Donald,
I'm also not interested in winning over any friends with the mentality of yours, you're our self admitted enemy, Thanks but no thanks.
41

James Donald,

Newbridge 17/04/2008 13:44:36
#43 postmark54,Chongqing, China - Fine by me. The only good Red is a dead Red.........
42

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 17/04/2008 13:46:41
#42 James Donald,
Only a fool would buy Chanel #5, what good does it do? Over priced crap is all it is, only for fools.
I respond to you and your newspaper because you critisize our great country, and our business is none of yours, like I said before, get a life, you're no better than a maggot.
43

KampungHighlander,

Jakarta 17/04/2008 13:50:07
#38

"As far as the poor quality of our goods is concerned, it can't be that bad when you see the insane demand for our goods"

The "insane" demand for your goods is built on energy and export subsidies and an artificially low exchange rate.

Sadly for China this strategy is unsubstainable. The energy subsidies has made China the worlds largest emiter of CO2 even larger than the US which has 4 times your GDP. As Carbon Taxes become the norm in the west you will find your products uncompetetive.

The artificially low exchange rate is causing domestic inflation of 11% and rising. China has a choice float their currency or watch it build to levels seen in Zimbabwe.

The cheap labour China has relied on will be coming to an end as their are very few entering the workforce thanks to the one child policy.

So enjoy your China while it lasts, you will soon be living in interesting times as the old Chinese curse says.

Hopefully one the positives out of the turmoil on Chinas horizon will be the fall of the CCP.
44

James Donald,

Newbridge 17/04/2008 14:12:07
#45 postmark54,Chongqing, China - "Only a fool would buy Chanel #5, what good does it do? Over priced crap is all it is, only for fools" - Perhaps you prefer your women scrubbed with a brillo pad and reeking of the sweat of a toiler.
"I respond to you and your newspaper because you critisize our great country, and our business is none of yours, like I said before, get a life, you're no better than a maggot" - But these comments and stories are in "our" newspaper and "our" business is none of yours. Insults from Red scum have no sting but merely show your rancid personality.
45

Mashimaro,

17/04/2008 14:38:14
#32 Bobby boy, you need to learn the difference between human right and basic rights. We have done exceptionally well on improving basic rights, and we intend to keep them.
46

Mashimaro,

17/04/2008 14:53:44
#37 Well, the unfortunate things is that yes, we are. We're boycotting CarreFour which has no problem in China and no problem with Chinese, so I guess they will be feeling the brunt of it even though it's not really their fault.
I do hope all of you guys in the UK will be boycotting the 200 billion dollars your leaders are begging from China...hmmm?
47

James Donald,

Newbridge 17/04/2008 15:21:33
#49 Mashimaro - Don't mind taking your money, but don't have to like you. Boycotts are easier for you because the bulk of your population does not have sufficient disposable income to afford the Western consumer goods.
48

Dáithí,

San Jose 17/04/2008 15:29:32
#24 - Marachino

>"It would be so nice if the finger pointers would stop exporting their e-waste to my country."

Why, because is it hard to separate from the rest of the waste?
49

Dáithí,

San Jose 17/04/2008 15:50:39
#48 - Mashimaro

>"you need to learn the difference between human right and basic rights."

I've always said that you are a true inspiration to condescending elitist leftists and CommSocs everywhere Mashimaro, they way that you re-define words is an inspiration to them.

Did you go to college in Europe or a liberal Arts college in the US? Both are excellent in the techniques that you use.
50

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 17/04/2008 16:26:16
#47 James Donald,
So what you're telling me that soap and water can't get a person clean, and you need this over priced Chanel #5?, well go ahead fool, buy away.

As long as you keep attacking my great country in the way that you insist on doing, I will defend it in the way I have been doing it, and letting you know that you are a useless piece of crap. Stay out of our business and comment on your own problems, we here in China don't go picking your country apart, but if we did, we would have many things to critisize about your country. Grow up and leave us alone, and you will not see us responding in the way that we do. Show us respect, and we will show you respect, disrespect us, and expect the same from us. I don't 'turn the other cheek', I fight back.
51

AlyxSylvr,

Toronto, Canada 17/04/2008 16:36:33
Gentle Readers: SO many sniping and cutting comments are worth little.

All countries like people have their faults and problems. One should always remember when pointing the finger the other three fingers point back at yourself.

China is going through faster change than any other country on the planet currently, Obviously there was a lot of pent up demand in their 1.2 billion population.
One should also remember that the greatest and best changes always come from within. Thus Tibet and Hong Kong for example have had a greater impact on China's direction than most outside countries.
Also trade because it entails internal interaction with the outside world brings great change.(some good some bad)

Typically governments that do not allow regular periodic change get dramatic sudden change every 50 years or so. Usually following the deaths or resignations of those who held control tightly. (either from natural causes or otherwise).

Similarly in democratic nations new political parties are born or old ones undergo reform.

One thing the communist system has been very efficient at is making certain that people hide their doubts and spout the politically correct line in public. Thus in many cases the best liars so to speak rise to the top. And as we all know liars make the best politicians. By this measuring stick alone one can deduce that China has some great new political leadership waiting in the wings of the stage.

However I do not wish to sling stones at country that is lifting itself by it's own bootstaps and is thereby in turn helping lift the rest of the world.


52

James Donald,

Newbridge 17/04/2008 16:37:11
#3 postmark54,Chongqing, China - "So what you're telling me that soap and water can't get a person clean, and you need this over priced Chanel #5?" - I don't think this is what I wrote at all and I don't use Chanel No 5 myself. A brillo pad will get a person clean but it is not very nice. Anyway, you didn't answer the question "How many weeks would the average Chinese toiler have to work to afford a bottle of Channel No 5?". Feel free to substitute any consumer good you consider useful over 100 quid.
"Stay out of our business and comment on your own problems, we here in China don't go picking your country apart, but if we did, we would have many things to critisize about your country" - Sorry but I don't take orders from Communist bully boys and I will comment on whatever I see fit whether you like it or not. I have no intention of showing dross like you and your fellow Red scum anything other than contempt. Do you get me now, sweetie?
53

Dáithí,

San Jose 17/04/2008 16:47:58
#55 - James v #53 - Postmark54

>"Feel free to substitute any consumer good you consider useful over 100 quid."

James, PO is intentionally avoiding your point and, true to communists/socialists everywhere, they disguise their inability to afford or provide any products by claiming "ha! who needs that!"

Supposed you pointed out that they can't afford toilet paper! They would proclaim:

"Ha! You decadent westerners need it, but faithful supporters of the Chinese Communist Party do NOT!

We can just sit in the dirt, stick our hind legs out, and drag ourselves forward with our front paws like a wee dog! We are so much smarter than you!"

See how it works? ;)
54

postmark54,

Chongqing, China, 17/04/2008 17:10:15
#54 AlyxSylvr,
I can't disagree with the points you made, and appreciate your comments.
What does get me is when a lot of comments from the west are so critical of China because it is a Communist country, something that the west has tried to discredit through which ever way possible. The comments from James Douglas, the man who openly admits to hating Communism and Communists, are far too personal for me and he is painting us all with the same brush. I am originally from Canada, have been living in China for 2 years and 7 months now, and believe me, all in all, this is a great country and I have no intentions of ever returning to Canada.
I love my newly adopted country, I'm proud to call it home and will defend it against the hatred of the likes of James Donald, who has never been here and is speaking out of hatred, and not out of knowledge. I tried reasoning with that boy a few weeks or months back, but he is stuck on believing that we represent evil, something that is so totally wrong and hurtful to hear. Tough to give a boy like that any credit.
55

James Donald,

Newbridge 17/04/2008 17:36:40
#57 postmark54,Chongqing, China - Could Dáithí be right? Do I smell the stench of avoidance from China's No 1 Communist zealot? Seen it all now, hurt the feelings of a sensitive Comminist....run down to your local CCP HQ and ask the duty Commisar for a big hug.....
56

Dáithí,

San Jose 17/04/2008 17:40:03
#60 - James

>"Could Dáithí be right?"

Yep - 99.79% of the time! The .21% is because I thought that I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
57

postmark54,

Chongqing, China 17/04/2008 17:47:25
#42 and #60 James Donald,
The Chinese are not interested in buying Chanel #5, it's a waste of money, food is more important. We have our priorities here, food, shelter and clothing, the rest can wait. That makes us clever, and there's no need to ridicule us for that.
You haven't hurt my personal feelings, but you are hurting a whole nation on your false beliefs, just goes to show you how narrow minded you are. Solve your country's problems, we will try to solve ours. We don't comment on yours, quit attacking us, like I said before, I don't 'turn the other cheek', I fight back.
58

James Donald,

Newbridge 17/04/2008 17:56:44
#62 postmark54,Chongqing, China - "You haven't hurt my personal feelings" - Oh, same. I'd try harder but you really aren't worth the effort.
"We have our priorities here, food, shelter and clothing" - Yes things were much the same here in the 18th century but we can afford the odd luxury now and then. I take it that this feeble response is your way of saying that it would take the average Communist slave a wee while to afford even the smallest bottle of Coco's finest.
I can comment on "your" problems if I like as well as those of my own or any other country - no Communist Party here telling us what we can and can't do. Get used to it or bog off.
59

MacShimidh,

East/West split 17/04/2008 18:21:26
postmark54 - now, breathe deeply...

There is no 'us.'
There is no 'them'.
We are all individuals.

You however, are a dangerously deluded schizoid.
60

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

17/04/2008 18:26:32
Where is that nice chap 'Nonothing' with my sandwich?..
61

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17/04/2008 18:29:43
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62

Biker,

Ayr 17/04/2008 19:22:28
Hi Cankers, good to see the usual high standard of reportage from the eastern correspondants.
The quality of the air was always going to be an issue depite the Chinese assuring The IOC that the problem would be resolved. I can see the 400metres being run up and down the same straight because the outfield cannot be seen. Or indeed the pole valters being fitted with altimeters due to the "low cloud"
When this stadium was built, where did all the people who lived in the area go? Into tents by the river thats where.
63

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

17/04/2008 20:59:12
...Aye Biker...and when the Olympics are over they'll all be able to breathe in toxic air again eh?
64

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

17/04/2008 22:28:09
62...Stop focusing on Chanel No 5 Skidmark, it is symbolic of having a few bob in your pocket, and who the hell made you the voice of the people?...this is like stereotypical commie blarney "The people dont want - the people dont need"...Give yourself a shake man, of course the people want luxurious things in their lives...whether it is a bottle of daft perfume or a pair of good shoes....patronising hauf wit.. bet they bliddy well dream of things they cannot own, human nature, you have not brainwashed them all you know and they aint all ants.

Four legs good two legs better!

FREE THE PANCHEN LAMA!!
65

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17/04/2008 22:30:34
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66

Mashimaro,

China 18/04/2008 01:13:39
#58 Water, food, electricity, heating.
In some areas a leap in healthcare and social services.
Do you imagine for one moment that if
a) Tibet is carved from China
and or
b) you manage to instigate a civil war

that these things will continue?

Wake up and smell the oil, dude
67

Mashimaro,

18/04/2008 01:18:42
#58 Oh yes, safety from the natural elements such as we have here, typhoons, floods, droughts, snow storms

you know those kinds of things you obese Brits take for granted while you shove more fried mars bars into your faces and write carp on boards like these
68

Mashimaro,

China 18/04/2008 01:21:01
#67 Stop lying. It is becoming really boring.
69

Mashimaro,

China 18/04/2008 01:30:15
#59 that's good to know. I take it you were mourning at the graves of the thousands killed by the regime then? Did you speak to the indigenous people who have been occupied for ohhh about 60 years now and seen their land turn from a lush, green, fishing paradise to a concrete jungle?
Did you go on a tour of the military and see all the billions of dollars Taiwan has been spending in buying America's "latest" weapong in case the dastardly mainlander come ashore?
Oh and did you speak to the businessmen who are all heavily invested in the mainland and can't wait for more? Did they tell you how their economy is falling apart?
Oh, no, wait, you went to their prisons to see the condemned people they are going to execute, cos they execute more people per capita than the nasty mainland.
It must have been inspirational for you.
70

Mashimaro,

China 18/04/2008 01:35:18
#69 There are chinese who want Channel and Lotuses and giant mansions. The other 1 billion people want food, water, and a better life for their children. THOSE are the people you attempted "let's save China" will kill.
71

Mashimaro,

18/04/2008 03:29:03
you = your
72

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

18/04/2008 08:55:28
75, Mashimaro,Do not attempt to blackmail us, it will not work with you and it will nor work with us. If we are to treat China with kid gloves because of its 'pride' then nothing will ever change, as has been evidenced so far. Why are there 1 billion people needing food, water and a better life for their children? what has China been spending the riches you boast about on?
73

Mashimaro,

China 18/04/2008 09:06:39
#77 "Why are there 1 billion people needing food, water and a better life for their children? what has China been spending the riches you boast about on?"

er... it's been spending its money on food and water, doh!

along with education, healthcare, agriculture, environmental protection, cival services - like flood, drought and storm relief - communications, the military, infrastructure . . .

You might have heard of the Three Gorges project, the Qinghai-Tibet railway, the South-North water scheme to name but a few
74

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

18/04/2008 09:25:45
Go on then, give us a breakdown of the budget...
75

Mashimaro,

China 18/04/2008 09:47:39
#79 - What do you care?
76

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

18/04/2008 10:45:15
And the Olympics Mushy old bean...how many billion has it cost the people of china?
77

Mashimaro,

China 18/04/2008 13:03:53
#81 We will only knowo that after the event won't we?
78

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18/04/2008 13:10:04
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79

Horrible Cankers at the Cyber Shebeen,

18/04/2008 13:31:58
83...mmmmh very evasive Mushy...billions..and people are suffering because of it...

84...How's your breath these days?
80

Mashimaro,

China 18/04/2008 14:21:08
#85 BILLIONS? I like the way you understate things. Who is suffering for the Olympics? Have you even been to Beijing? People are so proud of China it's hard to go anywhere without people talking about the Games. Most of the country is like that, except maybe Macau and Hong Kong where people think they are too sophisticated to get involved.
81

Biker,

Ayr 18/04/2008 18:08:23
Mashimaro. I see the usual incisive reportage is still spewing cr@p as usual. Tell us what happened to the disspossed people, or is this an embarrasment to you?
You ask where the money has gone. Have a look at your ultra rich class living just outside Beijing or indeed the ones who moved to Shanghai or indeed Hong Kong. Ask them where all the outside investment has gone, which incidentaly should have been used to supply power, water and education.
ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY FOOL.
82

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18/04/2008 21:39:43
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83

,

18/04/2008 22:27:17
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84

David E. Duke,

18/04/2008 23:11:03
88 & 89

Troll
85

Mashimaro,

China 19/04/2008 01:13:03
Biker: "Mashimaro. I see the usual incisive reportage is still spewing cr@p as usual. Tell us what happened to the disspossed people, or is this an embarrasment to you?"

I've answered this about four times. Are you dense? You want to believe there wee dispossessed people. I tell you you're wrong. *shrug*


"You ask where the money has gone. Have a look at your ultra rich class living just outside Beijing or indeed the ones who moved to Shanghai or indeed Hong Kong."

Yeee eees? And? A lovely little implication that the money is being rivered to the rich, without any actual proof, neh? Are you sure you don't work for the BBC?
I am sure contractors are being paid for their work, just as your contractors would be paid for their work.

"Ask them where all the outside investment has gone, which incidentaly should have been used to supply power, water and education."

I must say I didn't realise outside investment was supposed to supply people with basic needs. Isn't it usually to make the investor money? I don't know of us having received any recent outside donations to provide food, water and education. Most of the time it's countries holding out their hands to us.

And you, biker, armchair warrior, should get off your fei pei and go see for yourself. Until then..frog...toad..well, dude
86

Mashimaro,

19/04/2008 01:21:35
#88 Yes, there were child workers making Olympic mascots. The factory were shut down and prosecuted as soon as it became known. What is your point?



#89 thank you for your concern about my rest. I do not believe in lazing around in bed on any day. I rise at 4.30 each day to take part in exercise classes and studies, after which I might nap before work or go straight to work, depending on my shifts.
87

Let's have the truth,

Queensland 19/04/2008 01:33:22
I find it amusing to read the rubbish posted by those who envy China's success.

Is it because they can't admit to themselves Communism has some good points and is working for China?

Or is it because of their own "Don't talk to me like that or we'll bomb the cr@p out of you" mentality has acquired so much criticism that they attempt to deflect some of it?

Either way it is hypocritical in the extreme.

If these people had a genuine concern for the ordinary people of China they would hardly call for a boycott of the Olympic Games.

The ordinary Chinese people are (were) as proud of being awarded the games as those from Los Angeles, Atlanta, London.

I wonder if they still are as proud? I think they would be justified in cancelling the games in Beijing even at this late stage.

China should be praised for the improvements in human rights over recent years and not criticised.

It seems Mcarthyism is alive and well in the US and is spreading like the plague among some people.
88

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19/04/2008 01:40:02
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