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Hadden rewarded after bringing in Robinson

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Published Date: 10 March 2008
THERE was more than a touch of Englishness about Scotland's performance on Saturday, and not purely because the home side managed to out-muscle and out-smart the weightier English pack in the Murrayfield rain.
Andy Robinson was, in fact, a bigger part of the latest Calcutta Cup victory and English downfall than anyone let on last week. The Scotsman was told that he was playing no greater a role than was common for Scotland's pro team coaches, so either the likes of Hugh Campbell, Sean Lineen and Steve Bates have been more heavily involved than we realised previously, or that was simply cute camouflage to keep the former England coach from dominating headlines.

Two years ago, Robinson was on the receiving end as Hadden's first season in charge brought a stunning first Calcutta Cup triumph to Scotland in six years and proved the beginning of the end of Robinson's time at the England helm. This time, his style was written larger over the home forwards than the stuttering pack-horses that toiled to no avail in white jerseys at the weekend.

Robinson will term it mere 'tinkering', but the difference in Scotland's breakdown and rucking on Saturday was significant and more than a bit Edinburgh-like. There was more and quicker attacking of the area to the right of rucks, better ball presentation and moving of the point of attack away from the English forwards. Scottish ball came back slicker and English possession was regularly slowed up.

The variety of lineouts have also changed in the past two games from those which Scotland used in the World Cup and the first two matches of the tournament, though Scott MacLeod, who took over lineout-calling duties against Ireland and England, has also played an integral part.

Robinson spent a good bit of time with the Scottish forwards during the week, working mostly on their loose play and work at the breakdown. But rather than be used as a bat to beat the existing coaches with, this is a commendable example of Hadden's ability to pull in the resources he has available. Former Scotland back-rower John Beattie said in this newspaper after the Wales defeat that Robinson was a wasted resource at this moment in time if he was not brought into the national camp, and it is no secret that George Graham's expertise lies with the front five rather than back-row play.

Robinson was with the Scotland A team, who he then steered to a record Six Nations win with a 67-7 defeat of Ireland. There is a gulf between full Test and A levels, but their quick style of play at a time when the full side is struggling to unearth a clinical finish started tongues wagging. Hadden clearly thought similarly, and with no A team commitments nor Magners League matches, the Edinburgh coach was back last week. Alan Tait also said in Saturday's Scotsman that "no coach knows all the answers" and he contacted Brian Noble, Wigan's ex-Great Britain chief, for advice on defence.

Neither Noble nor Robinson turned Scotland from losers to winners at the weekend, but both aided the improvement. It ultimately came down to the trio of coaches and players, and Hadden pointed to the more astute play of his side as having brought him most pleasure at the weekend, notably when the heavens opened and changed pre-match plans.

He admitted: "We knew it was going to be a bit of a mixed bag, but just before kick-off we felt it was going to be dry and that it would be an opportunity to move the ball. Then the rain came, but we've trained in some horrendous weather during this championship and I thought our handling in the conditions was excellent.

"We just showed the right level of ambition in terms of moving the ball. You would think the heavier pack would have the edge in theses conditions, that they would make their weight tell in the contact areas, driving mauls and the scrummage, so it's an enormous tribute to our lads that that wasn't the case.

"I wouldn't say they (England] lacked commitment – they certainly came out firing – but the way we dealt with that technically was excellent. The biggest moment was the defensive lineout on our own line when they had two attempts to go for the driving maul. There's no doubt the game would have been different if England had got superiority in there. When they opted for the penalty kick at goal, the score said 3-3 but it was 1-0 to us. I felt we were in control in the second half. After it went to 15-3 I never felt we were going to lose."

Hadden knew that naming five forwards and just two specialist half-backs on the bench left him exposed to injuries, and when Rory Lamont went off after just 20 minutes the bench selection meant a shake-up of the back division. But he insisted: "I certainly wasn't panicking when Dan had to go on.

"You would have thought the conditions were absolutely tailor-made for Dan, although Chris's kicking from hand has improved recently and Dan didn't nail a couple of high balls, which was a surprise, but the rest of his game was pretty much immaculate. The trouble with our stand-offs is that they are so different and the team has to play differently with each; we have to adapt to the way they play. It would be nice to think as a coach that you could just change the stand-off to play the way you want, but it's not as simple as that.

"I think the team showed tremendous character to deal with the injuries (to Lamont and Ross Ford] at critical stages of the game."

He added: "We needed to win to sustain momentum because, by our standards, there's an incredible amount of young talent coming through. It would have been suicide to pick them today and put them out there against England. We needed a more experienced feel about the side today, with Jason (White] and Simon (Taylor] coming back, but it's absolutely vital that these guys keep the wins ticking over for the young guys who are coming through." He will, inevitably, want to finish with a confident win over an Italian side that, but for key errors in the opposition 22, might have shocked France yesterday, but he must again makes changes. That could open the door for more of that young talent.

With Ford out, Fergus Thomson is likely to be rewarded for his hour's display with a first Test start, while Simon Webster is an obvious candidate to replace Lamont, and if centre Nick De Luca is not fully fit to return then Ben Cairns, his Edinburgh teammate, could make his first Test appearance.

When asked if he felt he had been vindicated by the win, Hadden resisted a similar swipe to those immediately after the match, aimed at those of us critical of the earlier abject displays in this championship, and instead replied: "It's amazing what you can achieve if nobody cares who takes the credit."

That is a more fitting response to what was a clever move to involve the most experienced coach in Scotland, on a weekend of another terrific high point in the rollercoaster ride that comes with the position of Scotland head coach.

MORE CALCUTTA CUP COVERAGE...

Reliable Paterson puts boot in with a flawless display

MATCH REPORT: Written off Scotland step up to mark at last

Captain Vickery fumes at lack of discipline in English ranks

Stuart Bathgate: A blessed relief but no reason to get carried away


Woodward lays into coach for Cipriani affair

ENGLAND'S World Cup-winning coach Clive Woodward believes current head coach Brian Ashton made a "massive error" in his handling of the Danny Cipriani affair.

The Wasps full-back was dropped from the team in midweek after being pictured leaving a London nightclub in the early hours having dropped off some tickets for a friend.

However, Woodward, who led England to World Cup victory in 2003, believes Ashton got the whole thing out of perspective.

"I think it was an over-reaction, a massive over-reaction and I think they have got that totally wrong," he told Radio 5 Live's Sportsweek programme. "Cipriani is a highly professional person and someone England should be building their team around.

"To me he has not done anything wrong. I think they made a massive error there.

"If I dropped every player who had not got to by bed by one o'clock I wouldn't have had anyone in the team. They had a big opportunity to put their arm around him one on one but no more than that."

Woodward also believes the incident would have affected the rest of the squad, who put in a dismal performance in losing 15-9 to Scotland at Murrayfield.

"If you are in that team little things like that can slip in," added Woodward. "The overall performance was not just poor it was very, very poor."

He believes changes need to be made if England are to improve.

"It seems to me a bit 'cosy, cosy' for England. Wales have made tough calls and seem to have got it right," he said.

"We have to up the ante. It is brutal professional sport and sometimes you have to make tough decisions."

Wasps director of rugby Ian McGeechan praised Cipriani for his response, coming on for 20 minutes of a 29-25 victory over Harlequins.

"I was always going to bring him on. There are ways of dealing with things and we feel it could probably have been dealt with more sensitively," said McGeechan. "To take effectively his first cap away is a big call."

Lamont ruled out of Italy match after breaking bone in face

RORY Lamont will miss Scotland's final match in the RBS Six Nations Championship and could require surgery after suffering a facial fracture in Saturday's victory against England at Murrayfield.

Lamont received his injury in a clash with Iain Balshaw when he gathered a loose ball. SRU officials confirmed the fracture yesterday but refused to be any more specific than 'facial' in the description of what area has been affected.

The injury has been compared with that suffered by Chris Paterson against Samoa in 2004. Lamont is to undergo further assessment, but if the injury proves to be as bad as Paterson's, the 25-year-old is likely to face at least six weeks in rehabilitation and could be a doubt for the Tests with Argentina in June.

The winger was taken to Edinburgh Royal Infirmary for checks on Saturday and later discharged into the care of the Scotland medical team at the squad's Edinburgh hotel. Yesterday, the team doctor, James Robson, said: "Rory has made good progress from his concussion, however, scans have revealed he does have a facial fracture which will require further expert opinion and probable surgery."

With the benefit of hindsight Lamont will now regret trying to gather the ball with his hands on the slippery Murrayfield surface. Frank Hadden stated afterwards that it was a brave act which set the tone for the courageous Scottish display, while some Scottish supporters felt that Balshaw's decision to slide into the challenge feet-first was reckless.

The referee Jonathan Kaplan saw it as an innocuous act. The match's citing commissioner, John Charles from Wales, has until 5:15pm today to decide whether he views it any differently.

Ross Ford, the first-choice hooker, is also expected to miss the Italy match after suffering ankle ligament damage that could rule him out for anything between two weeks and two months.

Dr Robson stated: "Ross sustained damage to his right ankle ligaments during the first-half. He will require further assessment but, at this stage, he is unlikely to be available for selection for this week."

Hugo Southwell took a crack on his jaw when Jamie Noon caught him with his shoulder, and admitted afterwards he feared it was broken it. Dr Robson insisted this was nothing worse than the "usual bumps and bruises from a full-on Test match" and while all will be assessed again today, he expects the full-back, as well as Nikki Walker (ankle) and Paterson (arm), who picked up other knocks, to be fit for Italy.

Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 09 March 2008 11:48 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Calcutta Cup , Six Nations
 
1

Another King of Spain,

10/03/2008 01:23:00
Well done Scotland - now let's build on this. Target v Italy should be a 15point win.

And er.. Mr Hadden, can we start playing players in their best positions?

And if Dan Parks can't hack it (no pun intended), why pick him?
2

Scottabroad,

Ardross 10/03/2008 01:46:56
Parks should be dropped from the squad. I can't believe there's no-one more imaginative than him. Deport him back to Austrlaia - he wouldn't get a sniff at any of the Super 14 teams there.
3

Manila,

Makati 10/03/2008 05:17:17
Forwards did well, backs defended okay, but we did not have a sniff of a try. Plus, England were hellish.

Sorry, but I cannot get too excited quite yet.
4

,

10/03/2008 06:44:31
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
5

inoui,

Jomtien 10/03/2008 07:41:06
#2 Watched any super 14 lately? Doubt if any home nations would last the pace. With the new rules by the time the final quarter arrives the players have ran themselves to a stand still!
6

Spoot,

Third rock pool on the left 10/03/2008 07:56:55
One of yesterday's "national" (i.e., London based) papers published a photo of the Lamont/Balshaw collision with the caption "Rory Lamont's head makes contact with Ian Balshaw's knee".
7

FiBop,

Málaga 10/03/2008 08:18:49
What a great game, defiantly the best played this season!! It's even better when you are the only Scottish person in a bar surrounded by English to win! Yes we should have done better, scored a try at least but still.. Well done lads I'm proud of ya!!

Rory: hope you have a quick recovery, well played.
8

David Blaine, Mystery magical illusionist,

10/03/2008 08:32:56
Great result, but Dan Parks immaculate?

He nearly let England back into the game single handed with those duff kicks.

They won't change it for next week though. They should, but they won't.
9

David Blaine, Mystery magical illusionist,

10/03/2008 08:34:39
#1 that's ridiculous by the way, and class example of Scotland supporters believing the hype.

A 15 point win against Italy indeed. Any kind of win against Italy will be a real bonus. They're still favourites.
10

jdships,

10/03/2008 08:43:45
"Dan didn't nail a couple of high balls, which was a surprise, but the rest of his game was pretty much immaculate. "

Mr Hadden you are having a laugh , surely ?
Once again Parkes demonstrated he is not "International Class" even for Scotland !!

Great display of grit and determination pity the English couldn't be a bit more magnanimous and admit they were beaten , on the day, by a better side.
Messt's Moore, Guscott, Inverdale , Vickery, Ashton et al showed themselves for what they are .
The first two have no place in a rugby commentry box given their bias for England at every game they are involved in .
I want to hear what is happening not what they , especially Moore, want to happen
11

jdships,

10/03/2008 08:48:05
10 Happy English

Yet another one from the Moore, Guscott et al club !!
Can you not just admit that , on the day, you were beaten by a better side .
" Magnonimity in defeat " doesn't seem to be a known phrase south of the border
12

Aghast,

Podebrady 10/03/2008 08:57:07
Rory Lamont is a wonderfully strong and brave player. I dont think he had any decision to do what he did. A very stupid comment about with the benefit of hindsight he wouldnt have gone to gather the ball. If you take that attitude then with the benefit of hindsight, then none of us who have played rugby will play it again or should ever have started playing. Balshaw should be punished because accident or not you should never go in feet first. The English crowd also played their part by singing Sweet Chariots as he lay on the ground - disgraceful as it was it help propel the Scottish ire on the park and through the crowd. Great result.
13

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 10/03/2008 09:08:22
#12. The BBC need to look at the pro English bias.

When England win the post match is all about their victory and nothing on the losing side

When they lose, it's all about why with scant regard for team that beat them.
14

Aghast,

Podebrady 10/03/2008 09:13:10
I think England played very very well. WHenever they play us they alway grow an inch taller and run a yard faster. I would like to commend them on their defence, a very succesful result for them to prevent us from scoring a try. Of course the better team one, thats usually the case, however England should congratulate themselves for playing as well as they could have - had they not then it would have been a cricket score...
15

Elvis G,

Edinburgh 10/03/2008 09:13:44
Selecting only two replacement backs is a further reason wht Hadden is flawed as a coach. Parks almost blew the game with some abysmal kicking and thankfully the forwards mostly kept the ball away from him. And the backs looked totally unimpressive after Paterson moved out to the wing.

And remember Hadden was the guy who dropped Paterson for the first game!

While Saturday's victory was well deserved we cannot rely on bad weather every so often to help us win the occasional game. We have still only scored one try this year and that has to change.

Robinson's influence was felt on Saturday so lets waste no time at the end of the season in ditching Hadden and bringing Robinson/Townsend and a few others on board.
16

Kate,

Zurich 10/03/2008 09:31:43
It was a long time coming but great when it happened and very much deserved. Well done to all.

English posters commenting here, be a little magnanimous, the better team won on the day!
17

TonyB,

10/03/2008 09:33:29
Must mention Andy Nicol in dispatches for fighting the Scottish corner yesterday in Italy. The 'highlights' of the game were shown after full time in the Italy game, these consisted of Jonny W kicking his world record points and then a debate on whether Jonny W was good enough to keep in the English side. It was left to Andy Nicol with approx 10 seconds of the broadcast left to mention that there were in fact 29 others on the pitch and that Jonny W was probably the worst of the lot. He just had time to say that credit should be given to the Scots for their performance. Greeted with silence by Mr Inverdale and Jonathon Davies- then cue closing credits.

Poor poor losers.
18

Venachar,

10/03/2008 09:34:10
As others have said the right type of game for the right type of conditions with an improved performance to boot - well at least from most of the backs.
However if quotes about the weather attributed to Mr Hadden are correct it was never going to be dry underfoot, what planet was he on last week.
I am not sure who Mr Hadden is referring to when he said that was for the supporters and not the critics, there are a lot of critics out there. I have never criticised Dan Parks, personally I think he is a better player than people give him credit for but he was the most ineffectual back on saturday. He should not be in the 22 after saturday. That there was no alternative on the bench is down to the coach.
The possibility of injuries to the backs was raised well before the match and they did happen.
Are people not allowed to express an opinion? Scott Hastings also thought that Simon Taylor has not played a good game in several years. When Simon Taylor is selected only having just come back from injury then people can and should ask questions on selection policy.
As for #1 wanting a 15 point win against Italy next week get real. We don't know what team will be selected. There has been nothing to indicate that we will get near the try line this season without giving away penalties.

I know who I would like to see in the team or on the bench but I bet that Barclay,Rennie, de Luca, Low, Cairns and Godman will be nowhere near the side.

To paraphrase Sir Matt Busby - supporters buy tickets they dont score (goals) tries!! However if the management balls it up they don't buy tickets.
19

Red Dykes,

Highland 10/03/2008 09:36:27
I cannot believe Hadden thought any of Parks' play was "immaculate" - the guy is dire, completely out of his depth, and each embarrassing performance compounds the stupidity of Hadden's obstinate defence of the man. The team did well and its no surprise that Robinson's influence sharpened things up.
20

daffy_b,

10/03/2008 09:41:27
Let's not get carried away here.

Firstly we were woeful in the previous international matches, so any improvement has been on the cards. Okay we beat England, but there are still a few issues here:-
1. England were woeful on Saturday, and if they had been on their game, we'd have lost.
2. Scottish back line was still not fully functioning as an attacking force. Graeme Morrison aside, there were few line breaks.
3. Hadden's player-pool choices are very poor, and the injury to Lamont showed this by ONLY being able to bring on Parks, who again was woeful (his Garryowens almost always went backwards).
4. Playing players out of position does not build a good team - players need to be confident in their roles (Webster who had a great defensive game on Saturday is still not a centre).
5. Patterson needs to be at 10 - until Parks came on Patterson was very good at 10. After Parks came on, I don't think I heard Patterson's name again.
6. Robinson's involvement showed a marked improvement in the Scottish ball retention and recycling - time for his involvement a great deal more.
7. The game on Saturday was ripe for a sniping unpredictable 10 (like Hook) - unfortunately we don't have one (unless Godman can rise to the occassion).

I still don't see anything from Scotland's performance on Saturday (except the return of some spirit), that would give the Italians any sleepless nights.
21

Stoobing,

London 10/03/2008 09:56:55
Agree with those preaching calm. And as for Hadden, let's PLEASE not forget his first brainwave this 6N was to drop Hogg and Paterson, and to leave Strokosch and Lawson - stand out performers in the top team in the toughest league in the world - out of the squad.

Let's hope De Luca and Cairns are in the squad this weekend with, presumably, Webster out on the wing. Morrison deserves another crack after an outstanding defensive display. Still not convinced on Nikki Walker - Thom Evans fit at the minute?
22

Galasbest,

10/03/2008 09:58:44
On Lamont going to ground rather than kicking the ball into touch, perhaps he remembered the French try inn the first match of the championship when Mr Parks attempted to kick the ball into touch. For thoes who chose to comment on the outcome and our future. If you had been told at the start of the campaign that you can win one game be honest --- which one would you chose ?
23

Stoobing,

London 10/03/2008 10:00:49
And the point on Andy Nicol is so true! Inverdale, Guscott etc's one eyed views on England winning / England losing are a ball ache for everyone.

Nicol had clearly had enough when he felt obliged to smack down Inverdale's utterly nonsenical irrelevant witterings on the conked out Wilkinson.
24

Red Dykes,

Highland 10/03/2008 10:01:41
Agree about Morrison - took his chance - Walker is ponderous and for a big guy lost the ball in the tackle far too easily....there must be somebody with pace somewhere.....Isn't Chambers a Scottish name?
25

AJ Fife,

10/03/2008 10:06:07
It would seem the English hoity toities are worse than Scotland's!

God must be an ex-Fettys man right enough!
26

imch,

10/03/2008 10:08:05
You know, I could make so many points about the match on Saturday, for a rugby fan it was an enthralling encounter and Scotland won virtually every battle, how the BBC could call it dull...!!?? I guess international rugby must now cater for the part time supporters who do not grasp the rules of the game and therefore cannot appreciate what they witnessed on Saturday.

I could go on about Balshaw and the fact he must be cited, or Noon and his deliberate block as he moved into Southwell's path, or Kaplan's refusal to deal with Lipman in the first 20 minutes despite repeated warnings. However, my lasting memory will be of Nathan Hines winding up Sheridan so much that we got penalty after penalty. The little pats on the back, the sarcastic compliments and the cheeky smiles were a delight, and were only really appreciated when I watched the match back yesterday, (you do miss a lot being at the game but it was worth it for a very special atmosphere and a quite magnificent second verse of FoS before kick off). I wanted Hines dropped for this match as I thought his lack of discipline would cost us, however he was fantastic and at the heart of everything Scotland did. Stand up and tack a bow big man.
27

snudge,

10/03/2008 10:14:09
The English are so bitter.
After the end of the Italy - France game. They should highlights of the Ireland - Wales game BUT failed to show any of the highlights of the Scotland – England game. Instead should clips of Johnny Wilkinsons poor performace against Scotland.
Frankly its pathetic.
I’m not one for being anti-English but seriously what the hell is that about.
Andy Nicol said “Why are we so obsessed about Wilkinson. There were 29 other better players on the pitch that day so why are we focusing on him. Scotland should be credited for there performance”. - John Inverdale didn’t say anything and carried on talking about Wilkinson. Tit.
28

Red Dykes,

Highland 10/03/2008 10:24:54
How can you take anyone seriously who's called "Jonny" - I saw him talking to Gabby Logan on Inside Sport and I've never heard such pretentious twaddle - the guys head's up his rectum
29

Joanna,

Cambs, England 10/03/2008 10:25:49
Some of you are in danger of sounding like bad winners!

Good result for Scotland but will the improvement be sustained?

It seems from some of the comments on here that it doesn't matter if you lose as long as you win against England. Seems a bit odd to me, but then I'll no doubt be labelled one of the 'bitter English' for it.

I suppose we should be flattered that we are so important to Scotland.

"There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about."
Oscar Wilde


30

MBR,

10/03/2008 10:27:05
#20 spot on
31

AJ Fife,

10/03/2008 10:33:42
Bitter Joanna#30,

A win is a win, and it's especially sweet when it's against our natural enemy! ;)
32

Red Dykes,

Highland 10/03/2008 10:36:49
* Joanna - Bad winners? Have you ever heard the BBC commentary team any time Engerland triumph - at anything...not just rugby......and the commentary team's post - match comments were woeful...obsessed with poor Johnno's disastrous day - I think he may have caught "Parks Disease"
33

Joanna,

Cambs, England 10/03/2008 10:37:24
Bitter AJ moi? Not at all.

I thought Scotland played well and much better than they have done in any previous matches in this 6 nations.

But, personally I thought the game was poor and nearly as much hard work to watch as it must have been to play. Kick, kick all the way makes for boring rugby. I was even cheering a potential break from Scotland in the second half - just so things might liven up a bit, but it was not to be.

Its fun being enemies isn't it? ;)
34

Joanna,

Cambs, England 10/03/2008 10:41:03
Red Dykes

I agree - the BBC has dumbed down on everything not just sport. I regularly write to complain about their news coverage but it doesn't seem to make any difference.

I read Jonny's column in the Times this morning (online if you want to look) and he does seem to be whining a bit. Where he was kicking to on Saturday goodness knows. Consistency is a problem with the England team and maybe poor leadership but its always too easy to blame the manager.
35

TonyB,

10/03/2008 10:43:43
30 - Joanne

Don't think there is much danger if us getting too carried away with ourselves given the standard of fair presented so far from Scotland. It's good to win, epsecially if the team start to get a taste for it, it's even better to do it against your oldest sporting rivals. The fact of the matter is that the only really bitter people are those that are only taking an interest in the health of the Scottish game because it has impacted on the team you support.
We are well aware of limitations and our status in the world game, I just wonder if you and the team you support are similarly inclined?
36

Joanna,

Cambs, England 10/03/2008 10:46:52
TonyB

Suggest you go and read some of the English newspaper sites and read the comments from the journos and the posters on there.

You might realise that we are all too aware of our team's limitations. You also might like to check back on here to some comments that I made last week, where I doubted if England would win the CC.
37

HEN BROON 5,

HAPPY SMILEY ALBA :o) 10/03/2008 10:55:47
10 happy english,London 10/03/2008 08:38:05......
You need to be carefull with those sour grapes old bean as they will rot your stomach, if you have one?

30 Joanna,Cambs, England 10/03/2008 10:25:49...... And we Joannes should equally be flattered that so many faux English trolls come on this Scottish newspaper forum to vent their spleen, just shows how important Scotland really is to England, and how the English really care what we think.

To the match. Balshaws tackle on Rory Lamont was illegal, dangerous, and a cynical cheap shot. At no point in a rugby players career are they taught to slide into a player who is in possesion with both knees up, for the very reason that we saw, and the potential for fatal results. Balshaw is lucky he is not in jail. He should have been red carded and cited.

If as the excusers of Balshaw are claiming it was an accident:

Why did he take the ball from the arms of an unconcious Lamont and play it?

Why did he not put the ball out of play, and ensure that Lamont received immediate treatment?

Why did he slide in feet first with his knees up instead of jumping over Lamont and coming back on side?

Lamont has been criticised for not kicking the ball out, rubbish. He was obeying his natural instinct as a rugby player and taking possesion of the ball with a view to keeping it in play and preventing the line out and attempted rolling maul by England.

White and Hines were immense and out muscled the thuggish tendency of England shocking them into humility and taking the game into their faces, which they do not like as they are to arrogant for their own good.

Well done lads you have made your nation very proud of you and SENT THEM HOME WARD TO THINK AGAIN :o)

ALBA GU BRATH.

38

Joanna,

Cambs, England 10/03/2008 10:58:23
Hen Broon

I'm not faux English - I'm the real thing - unlike some of the Scottish trolls on here.

Hysterical as always :) lol
39

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 10/03/2008 11:10:56
For once Scotland were street-wise and that has to be down to Robinson's influence. They played 'the game in front of them' instead of being wrapped up in self-doubt. Robinson got them thinking on their feet! Hadden needs to realise that and learn from it. It was smart of Hadden to bring in Robinson and he should be commended for taking that decision.

As for Balshaw, I think he should be cited too. Perhaps it wasn't malicious so I'm not sure about citing rules but it was dangerous and totally avoidable. And even if it was 'innocuous' it put Scotland at a disadvantage and lead to England's most sustained period of pressure - surely play should have been stopped and perhaps England given a scrum, no?

Scotland have something to build on so let's see if the right things from this match will be carried forward into the Italy game.
40

Trevor Cliche, Media Adviser, Camp Haddock,

10/03/2008 11:20:46
#26 Fettes?
41

Trevor Cliche, Media Adviser, Camp Haddock,

10/03/2008 11:21:41
ALL CREDIT TO THE BOYS
42

AJ Fife,

10/03/2008 11:27:40
#41,

In keeping with the public school theme, it was an innocent slip of the finger!
43

EDINBURGH'S FINEST,

PRESIDENT'S SUITE, MURRAYFIELD 10/03/2008 11:30:06
Come on now all of you behave yourselves, particularly when adressing our friends from sout of the border. #21 has it spot on. Scotland were absolute junk on saturday we were just lucky that england were worse than us on the day. The record shows a win against england - well done.
I am one of many who selects BBC South east when recording the matches so as I do not have to put up with that claptrap from the "Scottish comentators" I would have Brian Moore any time and i stood in 1990 on the terraces at Murrayfield swearing at the fat english hooker we all hated!!!! He is forthright, to the point and actually makes quite clever observations and is quite funny at times. I thought having seen the match now that he was very fair in his commentary. The game WAS crap, the brightest thing around Murrayfield WAS the sun, why do we need 2 tornadoes flying past - less sideshows get on with the game, england were terrible. The alternative is to have fuddy doddy "aye weer behind at the moment but as long as we score mare points than them in the sicind have well win" - THICKO Still have to suffer shergar lookalike Jill Douglas on the touchline though with her stupid interviews "Rory Lamont has just passed on the stretcher here going up the tunnel and looks in a bad way" OH IS THAT RIGHT? Did she not think that the capacity at Murrayfield and millions around the world saw that. As for the people that were booing/singing during the injury delay Moore was again right they were a DISGRACE and in my view should be identified and banned. All this rubbish about citing Bolshaw it was a 50:50 ball and an unfortunate accident due more than likely to the slippieness of the pitch rather than any intent. In any case since when in rugby do we start kicking the ball out like football when there is an injury. All you people that don't know what you are talking about should realise that the referee can stop the game at any time should player safety be in jeapordy. Cut the nationalistic claptrap
44

Brendon Haddock,

10/03/2008 11:32:13
Nobody has mentioned Mike Blair's outstanding performance on Saturday, it's not since Gavin Hastings that somebody has been so secure under the high ball and he always makes the right decision. He carries on like this he'll be the starting scrum half on the Lions Tour. I think the Scotland team see him as their number one player and they really listen to him. Just shows how stiped Matt Williams was putting him on the bench.

Thoughts anyone?
45

paul02,

London . 10/03/2008 11:35:52
Joanna . Good morning . Its amazing how many bravehearts have contributed this morning . But their silence before the match betrays the truth . Ofcourse they´ll be full of themselves now until after the match against Italy , which I suspect will not be as easy as the bravehearts think , then the venom will return . The match on Saturday was poor , wasn´t it ? Scotland deserved to win and were the better team . But Englands performance was a complete mystery to me . I didn´t expect it after Paris . Difficult to know what the problem was , but the team will get it right eventually I´m sure . I think Paris was a better indicator of that rather than Edinburgh . I think we´ll see a far better performance against Ireland . Cheers .
46

HEN BROON 5,

10/03/2008 11:38:11
#39 Joanna,Cambs, England 10/03/2008 10:58:23 .....no way are you the real deal J, a real English is much more arrogant than you are, you are a planted troll go on admit it, like the utter moron @ #44, you just pop in to stir things up a wee bit. I bet your real name is Hamish and you have a ginger beard :o)

The Scotsman are deploying some desperate tactics now to try and atttract more punters on line with a view to selling more of their dead tree issue but they will have to do much better.

ALBA GU BRATH.
47

johnnyscotsman,

Newcastle via Linlithgow 10/03/2008 11:39:04
A Pyrrhic victory is a victory with devastating cost to the victor. The phrase is an allusion to King Pyrrhus of Epirus, whose army suffered irreplaceable casualties in defeating the Romans at Heraclea in 280 BC and Asculum in 279 BC during the Pyrrhic War.

Pyrrhic victor(ies)

Scotland displayed a tremendous passion & appetite for the game, the tackling was immense & the victory throughly deserved, however………….

Scotland did not look like scoring a try & to be honest England were a pitiful shambles.

Previous games have seen France, Wales & Ireland record very comfortable victories over Scotland, once our opponents score a try & go 7 points up it is difficult (some say impossible) for Scotland to win the game due to current extreme difficulty in scoring tries.

If Andy Robinson has been more involved with the forwards & made such a difference in a short space of time couldn’t a similar tactic be used & someone be brought in to revitalise the backs?

Off course this would necessitate Hadden’s departure but his record over the last 2 years probably warrants a red card.

I think the Italy game is 50/50 however would a Scottish victory mean that Hadden gets another year & the long suffering fans putting up with Hadden’s conservative, side to side & ultimately futile back game plan.

I believe the above (victory v Italy) scenario to be very much a pyrrhic victory as Hadden’s continued stewardship of Scotland will cause our rugby fortunes untold damage.

Incidentally v Italy – Southwell, Danielli, De Luca, Morrison, Webster, Paterson, Blair, Taylor, Rennie, Strokosch, Hines, Macleod, Murray, Thomson, Jacobsen.
Reps – Godman, Cairns, Lawson, Hogg, White, Kerr, Hall.


48

HEN BROON 5,

HAPPY ALBA :o) 10/03/2008 11:46:30
46 paul02,London . 10/03/2008 11:35:52 ...the Irish will turn you lot into mince....you have been undone by your famous arrogance and underestimation of the desire of the Celtic nations to give you a lesson.

Scotland shocked you into defeat. Hines and White put in a massive performance and stunned you lot. Scotland played your game and ground out a win through sheer hard work and bloody minded doggedness. Scotland won this match, by defeating you, not because you did not turn up, but because we out gunned you in every department, apart from the dirty play demonstrated by Balshaw, who is a typical English thug.

#45 Brendon Haddock,10/03/2008 11:32:13 ...totally agree Blair was composed and responded well under some huge pressure and was rewarded by Man of The Match.

ALBA GU BRATH
49

Joanna,

Cambs, England 10/03/2008 11:52:07
:D :D Hen Broon you are funny!

A ginger beard ... that made me laugh :)

I wish the Scotsman were paying me - do you think there's a chance? Anyone on the staff care to comment?

Excellent post by Edinburgh's Finest @ 44 and by Brendan Haddock @ 45. I think Blair (no relation to the better known one I hope) is the man to watch on the Scotland team. He certainly deserved to get man of the match.

Hi Paul

Maybe dropping Ciprani upset the other players and lets face it Ashton doesn't exactly look inspirational does he? Pity Martin Johnson doesn't seem to want to get more involved - he had the guts and the passion.
50

paul02,

London . 10/03/2008 11:53:23
44 . Enjoyed your contribution . For myself I love the braveheart nonsense before and during the game but after I rather prefer an objective assessment . Your contribution is that . I agree I think Brian Moore is reasonably even handed . If you want bias try watching French TV coverage when France are playing . In so far as assessment of the match on Saturday , or any match ,is concerned Gavin Hastings and Ian Robertson will do for me . Being Scottish matters not one jot to me . They know their rugby and I´d like to see them much more on TV , perhaps Sky . Incidentally Hastings absolved Balshaw from foul play as just an accident . Christ I wish Balshaw would get angry . You´re right the match was dire . Scotland won and good luck to them . But , like England , there will have to an improvement next week otherwise it´ll be back to square one . Italy won´t be easy . Lastly the Scottish and English kits are just dreadful . Blue and white , thanks .
51

paul02,

London . 10/03/2008 11:57:01
HENBROON . Your supine silence before the game betrays your fears , though you may be full of bravado now . But really I prefer more sensible contributions than yours . Try to do better .
52

EDINBURGH'S FINEST,

MURRAYFIELD MEDICAL ROOM ON THE LAUGHING GAS 10/03/2008 11:58:58
#47 you are a TW*T

Away and change your kilt and replace your jimmy hat. You are a disgrace to Scotland. I hear you are quite a balanced person though - chips on both shoulders. No my name is not Hamish, no I do not have ginger hair. You obviously do not understand the inticacies on the game of Rugby Football and it's laws. I bet you live in a council house, I bet you are a scum bag, I bet you drink special brew, I bet you are a guide at edinburgh castle, i bet you eat deep fried haggis and diet coke, I bet you are a complete moron who has never even played the game. I bet you cannot afford the tickets to Murrayfield. LOSER.
53

Sir Saltire,

10/03/2008 12:01:15
People are saying things like "scoring a try", "scoring tries" and the like, and now I'm totally lost - what's a try? And for that matter, I read somewhere that England won 2-0 on line breaks and I thought I was on a fishing website by mistake.
54

Stoobing,

London 10/03/2008 12:04:35
#48 - are you Frank Hadden in disguise? Drop Ally Hogg for Rennie? And Kerr should never pull on a Scotland top again. Chunk's lack of ability is countered only by his love of giving away stupid penalties. Change please.

Danielli in for Walker? I'd like some genuine gas on the wings, so Webster and Evans (if fit) would do.
55

EDINBURGH'S FINEST,

HASTINGS ROOM, MURRAYFIELD STADIUM, EDINBURGH 10/03/2008 12:07:59
#51 Thank you.

I shall mention it next time I am speaking to young Hastings.

I am glad you like the braveheart stuff, guess it does beat the maypoles and the bells - I am a proud scot but I cringe when all that nonsense goes on. maybe Hen Broon (Mrs Brown to our english friends) is the choreographer for it all - SPELL IT BROON!!!!!!

I am away now for selection meeting, we fly out Thursday (on an ENGLISH charter airline Broon!) so need to dash.
56

Venachar,

10/03/2008 12:08:57
Johynnyscotsman

you are obviously not a supporter but a critic of Mr H.

Spot on with your assessment by the way, just wondered about the spelling of your name and the Newcastle bit,mmm.
57

paul02,

London . 10/03/2008 12:12:04
Joanna . Saturday was a mystery . I can´t explain it . Maybe there is unhappiness with the coaching . I expect though that one or two players are not up to the job , which might explain the absence of a plan B . The intensity of the Premier League and the game in Paris may have contributed to tiredness . I think too taking the captain off is always a bad sign .I think Ashtons idea of blooding young players into a settled team is the right one . We have lots of fine young talent in England , but I think it unwise to throw them in together , especially with NZ coming up . The Paris team is capable of doing well there and if it does so the idea will be to blood younger players for the autumn tests . Not rocket science ofcourse .
58

Stoobing,

London 10/03/2008 12:14:09
Paul and Joanna - did either of you consider before the game that the Scotland backrow and scrum half were significantly better players than your team had on offer? Or that the average punter would opt for Hines & Macleod over Shaw & Borthwick? Probably not. And I said that before the match.

England's malaise since 2003 is due to the dearth of quality forwards being produced, most notably in the backrow. Couple this to trademark lack of ambition with backs selection (no Simpson-Daniel, Tait or - regardless of nightclubbing - Cipriani!) and you have a turgid, uninspired team.

There's no mystery to England's performance, Paul. Take out a barely credible win v an overchanged French side and you have three miserable performances (or more accurately 4 woeful halves out of 6) by England in this 6N.

When England start to acknowledge that journeymen so-called-internationals like Borthwick, Lipman, Easter, Croft, Wigglesworth, Noon, Sackey and Balshaw don't suddenly become Dallaglio, Hill etc etc when they pull on an England shirt, you can start to reasonably assess the current crisis in English international rugby.
59

EDINBURGH'S FINEST,

KIT ROOM, MURRAYFIELD 10/03/2008 12:17:56
Strips - lets start a discussion on that. Although it perhaps looked like it Murrayfield was actually NOT a swimming pool on Saturday so WHY do we need go fast skin tight tops. If Wagga Wagga (Sir Nathan Hines newly appointed honourary head of sledging and taking the p*ss out of Sheridan for the SRU for our English friends) is 0.0001 seconds late in hitting a ruck it REALLY is not going to matter that much. i know we are into marketing etc., etc. lets get back to a main and change strip full stop. canterbury can still get their exposure but we do not need webbed panels in contrasting colours - I will start back to plain Blue tops, blue shorts and solid blue socks, change strip plain all white.
60

EDINBURGH'S FINEST,

STILL ON LAUGHING GAS, MURRAYFIELD 10/03/2008 12:23:30
Hen Broon - are you there? Come on speak to the people or are some of the words too big for you? Of course, this is a grown up web site not you tube, you just can't hack it can you. Cant't play with the big boys and girls - in your corporation school playground are you grunting away to your fellow jocks. Why do scum like you read the Scotsman anyway? Sun/Mirror/redtops are all you understand eh? Come on give us a laugh - enter the fray. Come ahead if you think your rich enough!!!!!!!1
61

Joanna,

Cambs, England 10/03/2008 12:24:36
Edinburgh's F

What do the players think about the strips? Do they find it easier to play in the skin-tight tops? Less pulling of the shirt maybe, because they must be harder to get a grip of than the old style.

Colours I agree Scotland look better in the plain Blue without the grey/silver stripes.

Stobbing

Good comment and I agree England have been OK, but only in patches since the 03 WC.
62

johnnyscotsman,

Newcastle via Linlithgow 10/03/2008 12:25:56
Stoobing -

I assume the Rome pitch will be significantly firmer than the pitch on Saturday, we need to win the breakdown & Rennie is a genuine 7 & has been sensational in the loose for Edinburgh this year. Danielli is a scorer of tries a rare thing in the scottish game don't you think?
Whom do you suggest should be our front row options?

Venachar -

I have attended around 85% of home internationals over the past couple of decades, attended the World Cup in Australia & have been a regular Edinburgh watcher over the same period.
I see FH as the major issue hindering Scotland
Regarding your spelling issue, are you still hungover after Saturday?
I used to reside in Linlithgow but now in Newcastle!!!!

HAPPY TO HELP


63

Lederblix,

10/03/2008 12:26:16
Paul02 - are you the Paul that used to wind us up with your banter in the good old days of the SRU chatroom?
64

Trevor Cliche, Media Adviser, Camp Haddock,

10/03/2008 12:33:05
Yeah, Brian Moore and Eddie Butler are good, at least in my book. I like the fact they spend half their time squabbling - really adds amusement value to the match.
Anyone who says Mooro is biased is just wrong - he's very fair - Scotland have been crap recently, what should he have said, that they were brilliant? His column in the Torygraph is always a good read too.

Also, is it just me or did Dan Parks total lack of composure nearly allow England back into the game? Nothin personal, he's got some good touches as a player, but what's the justification for picking someone whose total lack of composure at that level basically gave away 6 cheap points?

He always looks like he's cr@pping his pants, his errors directly lead to tries against Argentina and France, and basically gifted England 6 points on Saturday when we were totally in the driving seat at 15-3. Unless some hot shot psychologist or manager (like young Mr Shinar ha ha ha!) can sit him down and unfry his decision making processes how can you carry on picking him? I gather he's a popular squad member, but still.......
65

paul02,

London. 10/03/2008 12:38:14
EDINBURGHS FINEST 56. Cor you´re one o´dem posh selector blokes aren´t you? You´ll be seeing Gavin ? I bet he´s a rich bloke ! I did mean what I said about GH and IR . I think they are lost to the public in the south , well GH is because IR is with the BBC . A pity , Scottish certainly , but like most rugby pros bright and objective . Have a nice flight .
66

Stoobing,

London 10/03/2008 12:39:17
johnnyscotsman - like your thinking on Rennie, but feel our backrow should be as was last Saturday. Rennie is welcome to Brown's place in the squad though, with White there too.

Our front row is a joke. Euan Murray appears to be 20st of nothing, but I'd keep him and Thomson (obviously). Dickinson will hopefully benefit at Gloucester now he's getting some game time but feel he (and Craig Smith) have more of a shout at starting than wee Chunk, or Kerr.
67

Stoobing,

London 10/03/2008 12:41:33
Another thing - our lineout is consistently woeful too, so why not put White in with Hines from the start, and try to play short, safe lineout all day v Italy? Imagine Hines, White and Strokosch rampaging around all day, with Taylor and Hogg helping out?
68

paul02,

London . 10/03/2008 12:42:40
LEDERBIX . 64 . I don´t think I am . I haven´t got enough about to wind anybody up . I´ve not even heard of the SRU chatroom . But I´ll see what I can do . Cheers .
69

EDINBURGH'S FINEST,

HOME DRESSING ROOM, MURRAYFIELD 10/03/2008 12:42:55
#62 Joanna

The players really do not have much of a say, they are picked for scotland and handed their jersey. I do know that Wagga Wagga likes it tight. Dan Parks likes his tight. The wingers like the ribbed bits for grip and sensation. Props hate them, back row like it tight so they can show off their muscles.
Interesting from a females point of view - do you like it tight?
70

Scotch on the rocks,

London 10/03/2008 12:43:16
#30. You are right. There are a few too many smug comments - a bit like watching Jeremy Guscott and his BBC friends. Nevertheless, two wrongs don't make a right.

We play Italy in 5 days, so let's move on and look forward. The way to beat Italy is through the backs (as shown by Wales). Our backs helped us beat Ireland A by 10 tries to 1 with Morrison and Cairns to the fore. Get them in the centres for the Italy game outside Blair and Paterson (#20 - your selection is right) and let's end the tournament with a flourish.
71

EDINBURGH'S FINEST,

MURRAYFIELD 10/03/2008 12:45:18
#69 For information people the SRU chat room was dropped as there has been too much anti christ (hadden) chat over the past few months and they thought it would upset his holiness.
72

Scotch on the rocks,

London 10/03/2008 12:46:04
#22's selection looks right for the backs (not #20)
73

rab36,

10/03/2008 12:46:08
Great day out on Saturday. Poor game in general, but that didn't matter. Even with Danny-Boy on the Park, attempting to single-handedly lose the game for us, with his pointless kicking from hand (although I'll give him his dues for his long-range penalty).

One of the funniest things was after the game, I popped back up the exit to have a final look round the emptying stadium, to see some of the England players warming-down.....to the strains of "We Are The Champions" over the tannoy!!! Superb!!

Just the one change for Saturday - Webster onto the wing and DeLuca back in at centre, although I'd like to see some of the younger players, such as Cairns, Godman and Rennie get a chance. I still think we'll struggle against Italy, and will be grateful for a narrow victory.
74

GP,

10/03/2008 12:50:18
27# & 59# spot on.
The rest? mostly rubbish.
It rained! both teams affected the same.
Balshaw - an accident yes but preventable. He should not be going in feet or knees first. coward!
Noon - by jumping into and using his shoulder as a weapon should be cited. coward!

Parks - very poor
Hines - supreme wound up Sheridan and co to great effect.
Paterson - world class kicker.
Blair - played well.

Vanikolo - sorry about the spelling maybe it is
"diet kola" as he was kept under tab.

The game was excellent pity the commentators can't see past dry grass and no wind. This is the UK and we get bad weather no and again.
As for those who think kicking has little or no part to play - surely you forget Englands world cup win plus the many many times that they singly relied on the boot to win games. Starting from the cheat Rob Andrew's penalty in the semi final RWC at Murrayfield.

Don't be such sore losers and I ma really glad and happy to join in with Andy Robinson's wife's comment to Brian Moore.




75

EDINBURGH'S FINEST,

OFFICES, MURRAYFIELD 10/03/2008 12:51:31
#66
Not as glam as it sounds. Particularly when you have to select 22 from a bunch of useless ones (HALF OF WHOM ACTUALLY PLAY IN ENGLAND - SO ALL YOU NATIONALISTS SHUT THE ---K UP COZ IF IT WERE NOT FOR ENGLAND HALF OUR PLAYERS WOULD BE MISSING). Yes see Mr H at least 2 times a week - he is still the best remembered scottish rugby player of all time and from the amateur era which must say a lot - he still gets sieged for autographs whilst members of the CURRENT squad walk past - now surely that says something.
76

jimbo_in_england,

Falkirk 10/03/2008 12:55:25
What's all this nonsesnse about England being rubbish??? England's success (most recently in getting to the World Cup Final) has been built on a boring forward dominated game which tries to stifle any open play from the opposition, and only once they have amassed a big lead do they attempt to open up. On Saturday, Scotland didn't allow them to get their own way and that's why they were beaten not because they were so bad - yes Johnny didn't have a great game, but if he was in the Scotland team and Parks was in the England team then we'd have won by even more, so we actually had a bigger handicap to overcome than England did! Yes the game was dull in terms of open play but it was never going to be a flair game between those two teams. Suppose it's good though that they think they lost just because they were so bad rather than realising that if you come up against a team you can't dominate/bully and have no plan B then they game's a bogey! - long may it continue....
Having watched the Italians during the 6N they're a far more exciting team to watch than Scotland, and we'll certainly have our work cut out to come back from Rome with anything this weekend, especially if Haddit continues with his mystifying selection policy....
77

Hootsmon Henry & his hairy hangdog hound,

Crufts, strutting with Sir Franklin D Haddcock, OB 10/03/2008 12:57:17
Hey - you, ultimate strategist, FunTimeFranklin D Hardup..!

Forgetting the odd-shaped ball & referees who dislike your over-use of the glottal stop (to show you are one of the peeps) don't you think it might just be a good idea to be ahead of the opposition on the scoreboard in every match played???

Furthermore - HOW MANY TRIES HAVE SCOTLAND SCORED IN THEIR LAST 4 MATCHES??? How many against, eh????


STOP PRESS NEWS - HOT TOPIC........!!!!
"GREAT DRAMA"
Scottish No8 the former Mr Simon Taylor dropped from squad after undergoing sex-change operation and transformation into a poncy wee footballer, in London nightclub after midnight curfew.

Sources advise that the new Mrs Simonitta Taylor did not drink (much) alcohol during the 20 minutes procedure, but was seen initially chatting in perfect Romanian to a Cheeky Girl and later, dancing with a (very) cross-dressing lady-boy known locally as the "Bangkok Bricklayer's Hod-Carrier".

Mr FunTimeFranklin D Hardcore wears silly hats for the hell of it. (Ed)
78

Joanna,

Cambs, England 10/03/2008 13:00:08
"Interesting from a females point of view - do you like it tight?"

Edinburgh's F

Not quite sure how to answer that one :))

The tops do look more aesthetically pleasing (from this female perspective)on the male form in the tight version ..yes!
79

Salvatore,

France 10/03/2008 13:00:22
The Lamont / Balshaw incident was clearly an accident and had no malice intended. It is ridiculous to suggest otherwise. HOWEVER- how come nobody is mentioning the blatant punch that Sheridan landed on Jason White at the bottom of a ruck just a minute or so before the end of the match? It was a beauty and must have been seen by someone other than White! It was very clear on TV - have a look.
80

Venachar,

10/03/2008 13:05:37
johnnyscotsman

Apologies didn't intend to get your back up.

I agree with Rennie position and after Mr Haddens comments after the match viz supporters/critics I am firmly in the later camp.

81

EDINBURGH'S FINEST,

PRESS ROOM, MURRAYFIELD 10/03/2008 13:06:08
Here you are folks:-

v Italy, Rome Saturday

15 - Southwell
14 - Webster
13 - Morrison
12 - Cairns
11 - Patterson
10 - Godman
9 - Blair (c)
8 - White
7 - Strokeosh
6 - Hogg
5 - Hines
4 - Murray
3 - Jacobson
2 - Thomson
1 - Gray

Subs: Lawson, Blair, Taylor, Hamilton, Brown, Cipriani, De Luca.
1 -
82

paul02,

London. 10/03/2008 13:07:57
STOOBING : 59 . I take your points , although I think you a little unfair regarding the win in Paris . France against England in Paris , I think many would agree , would usually be regarded as the ultimate NH test . To win there at any time is difficult and to have done so , against an unbeaten team , in the manner it was achieved was comendable . Ofcourse generally speaking some England players may not be up to it . Certainly Scotland on the day outmuscled England . The problem is that in such a situation England don´t have a plan B , or the players for plan B as you suggest . The breakup of the 2003 team was always going to pose major problems which no country on earth , even NZ , would easily resolve . The loss of Johnson , Back , Greenwood , Wilkinson , Hill , Thompson , Dalalgio , Woodman etc was a disaster . Talent in abundance is in England and their time will come again . For Scotland I truly wish good luck . However ,unlike some of your more rabid fans , I think the world is not yet at Scotlands feet . This victory agaist a very poor England should be assessed in that light . It is a platform for better things but Scotland MUST improve for next week . The same game will be insufficient , they need too a plan B . I saw Italy against France yesterday and I can assure Scotlands task will not be an easy one . Still I think of Scotlands coach as a likeable and intelligent man and hope that after Saturday the pressure is off . Cheers .
83

EDINBURGH'S FINEST,

KIT ROOM, MURRAYFIELD 10/03/2008 13:08:28
#79

Joanna - And I have visions of you wearing one do I??????:):):):):):):))mmmmmmmm
84

Venachar,

10/03/2008 13:08:32
johnnyscotsman

Apologies didn't intend to get your back up.

I agree with Rennie position and after Mr Haddens comments after the match viz supporters/critics I am firmly in the later camp.

Try reading " a blessed relief"

85

kimba,

10/03/2008 13:18:13
Have been reliably informed that England lost on purpose as a protest at the danny cipriani affair, brian ashton is not "flavour of the month.
86

forestry,

DUNS 10/03/2008 13:26:21
Unhappy about yesterdays English biased 6 Nations programme where the highlights of the Calcutta Cup match consisted of a disscussion about Johny Wilkinson.
Please phone the BBC to complain Tel 08700 100 222
87

TonyB,

10/03/2008 13:35:21
For Italy, changes will be needed as the conditions are likely to be more favourable to an expansive game. Whether any changes will be made is debateable as the team from saturday are likely to be rewarded for their efforts. IMO the game v Italy will be won in the backs so I would try and get as penetrative a set of backs as we can muster. A kicking game would suit the Italians.
A couple of tries would be nice.
88

EDINBURGH'S FINEST,

THE DUG OUT, MURRAYFIELD 10/03/2008 13:36:43
#87 Get back in the woods and shut up. Just as well Jonny had a bad day.

Let me open another thread of discussion. We are just over 1 year away from naming the Lions squad to SA in 2009. If we were picking the squad now who (from all countries) would make (say) the 30 straight away? Lets name 2 names per each position.
15 - Lewsey/Welsh 15
14 - Williams/Sackey
13 - O'Driscoll (c)/Henson
12 - Shanklin/England 12
11 - Patterson/Irish 11
10 - O'Gara/wales 10
9 - Blair/wales 9 (dirty bstrd though he is)
8 - England 8/Wales 8
7 - White/England 7
6 - Wales6/Ireland6
5 - Hines/Ireland 5
4 - England 2nd row
321 - English and welsh front rows



I'll go first
89

Delboy29,

10/03/2008 13:45:13
Summary:
Great atmosphere, cr*p match, great result, England v. poor, Scots forwards awesome, Wilko past it, Balshaw/Lamont incident was NOT deliberate (Lamont seemed to be in two minds whether to fall on it or hack it into touch and eventually went down rather awkwardly), also can we not grow up about booing the oppo kicker? Ireland manage it easily enough...
90

TonyB,

10/03/2008 13:50:58
89

You have more players out of position than one of FHs team selections. Also, the generalisations on positions eg England 12 etc betray a lack of knowledge.

Far too early to be guessing for this anyway, a lot depends on which coach gets the gig. Remember what happened in the last two tours?

A point on the strips. I would have thought that these skin hugging efforts used today are not really a winner with a lot of fans as I would guess the majority don't have the physique to carry it off to the same extent that most of the players (Chunk excepted) can.
Bring back the baggie, tuck in the shorts version.
91

A Jambo come rain or shine,

10/03/2008 14:01:22
#89 Must be joking no? Lewsey? England 8? English 2nd row?

15 Byrne (W)/Murphy/Dempsey (I)
14 Horgan (I)/ Sackey (E)
13 O'Driscoll (I) / Henson (W)
12 Shanklin (W)/ Tait (E)
11 Williams (W) / Patterson (S)
10 O'Gara (I) / Hook (W)
9 Blair (S) / Phillips (W)
8 Jones (W) / Taylor (S)
7 M Williams (W) / Hogg (S)
6 Strokosch (S) / Wallace (I)
5 Wyn Jones (W) / O'Connell (I)
4 O'Callaghan (I) / Mcleod (S)
3 Vickery (E) / Jones (W)
2 Best (I) / ?
1 Sheridan (E) / Jenkins (W)

Wilkinson would still go as no coach wouldn't take him - especially if he was playing with world class players around him.
By the way, i think the Springboks would cream the Lions just now - Northern hemisphere rugby just isn't in a healthy enough state at the moment.
92

Lederblix,

10/03/2008 14:01:48
91 re strips: and for q**k*s sake lets get back to our traditional colours - does anyone actually like our current overfashioned colourway?
93

HEN BROON 5,

HAPPY ALBA ;o] 10/03/2008 14:09:28
#89. RU smelly dimba kimba in disguise?

Were your parents siblings?

After reading your post, I've decided I am in favour of abortion in cases of incest.

But hey don't let your brains go to your head!
Did the hospital test too many drugs on you today?
Do you ever wonder what life would be like if you'd had enough oxygen at birth?
You don't know the meaning of the word stupid, but then again you don't know the meaning of most words!
Don't let your mind wander -- it's too little to be let out alone.
I would leave you with this thought but alas you have no place to put it.

Staying longer and engaging you in a battle of wits would be engaging with the defenceless, you sad deluded fukwit.

ALBA GU BRATH.

94

EDINBURGH'S FINEST,

SELECTION MEETING, LONDON 10/03/2008 14:11:55
I get about a bit.

#92 For the English reader a "Jambo" is an endangered species who supports Heart of Midlothian FC (Hearts= Jam tarts = Jambos = NO, DON'T ASK!!!)here in Edinburgh. There is, as of yesterday, an even more endangered species named "Hibees" but let us not go there. Anyway #92 Yes take that, although not sure at Taylor - Lions tours never been the best for him, Hogg and McLeod mmmm interesting. wilkinson is always a cert but people are now realising just how good patterson is when it comes to kicking problem is would he get a wing position?? I do think another year at Gloucester will make him a FAR better player. Yes watch the Sky coverage of the SH rugby really makes what we saw on saturday like a mini rugby match - and the SH play a bit in the rain too.

Coach of the Lions???????

McGeechan assisted by Robinson
Team manager (if not already picked) Gavin Hastings

95

EDINBURGH'S FINEST,

THE TOILETS MURRAYFIELD 10/03/2008 14:21:56
#94

Hello Hen and greetings to you you rancid little piece of doggy dung.

Yes, i have parents, both happily married for a long time and living in a house valued at over £1.5M which is probab;ly the value of your council house estate.
It must be so sad being a little loser that cannot get on in life and is always looking back on things. I had a happy childhood upbringing, I was taught manners which scum like you patently do not have. I do not do drugs but I bet you smoke - stinky. i was brought up to play rugby and respect people of superior intellect unlike you. You little saddo can only resort to abuse and vile behaviour just like your own scum bag upbringing. No wonder the rest of the country laughs at us when you represent us. You cannot enter a battle of wits as you just cannot compete with superior intellect. even resorting to swearing which all scum bags do as that is the only way they can communicate. have you paid your rent this week yet? What about tokens for your meters - have you got enough wouldn't want you to get cold in the big storm that is coming. but no doubt you will be claiming every benefit going skinto. Now go away and watch CBBC and let the big ones get on with some serious work. W---NKER
96

Major General Puffin-Stuff,

10/03/2008 14:48:48
EDINBURGH'S FINEST - so ironic (lol!!)

You really can't have seen much of the match from the Murrayfield toilets, dear boy. Suggest you toddle off and see what some VERY respectable rugby pundits are saying about the match, and the Scottish performance in general, in all the leading English press - even the Torygraph, which I suspect either you or your parents in their house valued at over £1.5m (are we supposed to be impressed?) probably subscribe to. Maybe then you wouldn't persist with your own rancid little doggy dung comments.

And no, I don't live in a council house (as if there is anything shameful in that), I went to the largest and most prestigious Edinburgh Merchant Company fee-paying school, and I run my own business.

PS. Given the place of your posting, sounds like you're a secret cottager, my boy. Never mind - it is the 21st century, and perfectly safe to come out of the closet!
97

Major General Puffin-Stuff,

10/03/2008 14:56:42
#96
What "superior intellect" would that be? The type that gets down and dirty with a fine line in foul-mouthed abuse?
98

Major General Puffin-Stuff,

10/03/2008 15:04:22
#96
"I was taught manners" - really? Just what would your poor parents (sorry, RICH - they live in a house valued at over £1.5m.......ooh, err!) think of your street ragamuffin language - naughty boy!
99

Sir Saltire,

10/03/2008 15:16:48
I like a strip to be tight to my body, and make me sweaty. The best value strips are usually in and around Lothian Road, although they're mostly eastern European nowadays, and a Scottish strip can be hard to find IMHO ;)
100

A Jambo come rain or shine,

10/03/2008 15:43:03
#95 Agree that Taylor has a bad history of lions tours but don't think that should count against him. I think he's the most natural 8 after Ryan Jones and, injury permitting, would be very good. Also with you on Mcleod but i think he's a developer - think the English locks are too old. Hogg would be a good squad player and can cover most back row positions. Patterson would again be a good squad player but wouldn't get a start at 10 or 11/14/15 because of better options. Scotland on Sunday were saying that Geech is a stick on for the post and would rip the arm of the person offering him the position! Would be great having him again and he's been very successfull and it would be a damn sight better than the Woodward disaster of '05!
101

Trevor Cliche, Media Adviser, Camp Haddock,

10/03/2008 15:43:10
Hey #72 EDINBRGH'S FINEST,

I was a great fan of the SRU chat room, trouble is as a host of a chat room you are liable for anything defamatory or harassing which gets posted on it, and quite a lot of what went on the SRU chat room was defamatory and harrassing! It was infamous, even amongst non Scots supporters!

The Scotsman obviously consider the admin time spent moderating the regular invective (mine included!) worth it in order to have a lively forum, but they won't tolerate abuse either.

Frank may have faults like all of us, but he can't be blamed for the demise of the SRU chat room.
102

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 10/03/2008 15:46:12
Aye, easy to wind it up as well eh? Perhaps he needs his nanny to relieve the tension or does he get that from his rugger buddies?

Only a fool would mistake nationalism for patriotism. It was Walter Scott, father of Scottish unionism, who invented tartan patriotism and you only really find that in the range-rover driving, 'r' dropping, wanna be English really, old school tie fraternity Tories.

They have bottle-necked Scottish development for too long and their extinction will mean fresh air for the country as well as its team to breath new life into itself.
103

Trevor Cliche, Media Adviser, Camp Haddock,

10/03/2008 16:00:40
I would say the best strip has a booze and junk food stain on it of some description, is Nylon and therefore likely to melt in the presence of a naked flame, is, erm, ethically sourced from a factory providing exploitati....employment opportunities to south east asians of school age earning no less than 20p/ day, and is countoured to be a mere 3 size too small man-boob hugger allowing an ultra detailed visualisation of the bearer's extensive beer gut.
104

Bordererinengland,

10/03/2008 16:01:52
Remind me never to buy a car from Hadden as his definition of "immaculate" is at the opposite end of the spectrum from mine! He obviouly goes to the toilet for an "immaculate"!

Hadden's bench nearly cost us the game. Paterson started well and,as soon as we had an injury in the backs,he had to be shifted. What tremendous foresight on Hadden's part. I agree that being able to bring on a better kicker may seem like an advantage given the conditions but I didn't see any evidence on Saturday that we brought on a better kicker....quite the reverse in fact.

Yes it was an exciting game to watch as England, despite their woeful performance,were always close enough to put doubts in the mind. Having stood at the old clock end and witnessed Gavin Hasting's botched RWC semi final kick against England you take nothing for granted! However,let's be realistic. Yes we won with a fantastic Scottish defensive display but where are the indicators of progression apart from better ball retention round the rucks and mauls and the defensive display?

I thought Morrison looked like he might be more creative than Henderson (not saying much), Paterson looked like he might be able to spark something and Blair was immense but we were really only the better of two poor rugby playing sides (defensive performance apart).

Parks when he came on only demonstrated why he shouldn't have been in the squad in the first place. I wasn't at the game so can't really say where the booing was coming from during the delay for Lamont's injury but my immediate reaction on hearing it was that it was Scots fans booing Parks appearance on the field. He was obviously coming on at that point and Paterson was being shifted to the wing as we had no one else. Anyone else think that?

Team for Italy:

15 Cairns
14 Walker
13 De luca
12 Morrison
11 Webster
10 Paterson
9 Blair (capt)
8 Taylor
7 Barclay
6 Strokosch
5 Mcleod
4 Hines
3 Murray
2 Thomson
1 Jacobson

Ally Hogg has to be the unluckies
105

Trevor Cliche, Media Adviser, Camp Haddock,

10/03/2008 16:03:33
Without the need for the wearer to strip naked, which he quite often does unsolicited, usually in pubs, often so that he can teabag his friend's beer with his testackles whilst he's in the toilet, to general raucous encouragement from university educated, silly hat wearing onlookers.
106

Bordererinengland,

10/03/2008 16:07:59
continued from #105

Ally hogg has to be the unluckiest guy out there by not making the team but I would always choose a specialist No 7 especially if I was wanting to play a running game. I'd even have Rennie on the bench primed to come on at 55 minutes.

We've nothing to lose in Italy and it should be Hadden's last game in charge so why not go for it?

Surely Saturday's result can't have saved him? Just in case "taxi please for Hadden and Parks asap"
107

Trevor Cliche, Media Adviser, Camp Haddock,

10/03/2008 16:38:55
why are you people selecting teams Jeezuz H?
It's not going to make any difference and maybe Frankenhaddock knows things we don't.

Like what that bald guy in the blazer was doing in that gently rocking F reg renault espace by arthur's seat last wednesday night, right?

108

mansfield park,

Wultin, Stirches and Burnfit 10/03/2008 16:48:09
Guid result lads........it's always great to stuff it up the English...no matter how we play......and by the way, we only played them at their own game.
109

davymoncs,

Brightons 10/03/2008 17:16:49
Your reporter, David Ferguson, should hang his head in shame. If he is prepared to lay the blame squarely at Frank Haddens door (rightly) for the three previous performances, then he should be man enough to give him some credit, and take the comments from the coach after the England game on the chin. Instead, he used headlines and column inches to have further digs and sideswipes, and also belittle Hadden and suggest the only reason we beat England on Saturday was because of the input from Andy Robinson. Grudges should not be played out in the pages of national newspapers, particularly from here today and gone tomorrow hacks.
110

kimba,

10/03/2008 17:40:01
110. Andy Robinson had sweet F.A. to do with it,England lost in protest at the treatment of danny cipriani,ashton is not the flavour of the month at the moment.
111

Major General Puffin-Stuff,

10/03/2008 17:42:02
Quote: "You cannot enter a battle of wits as you just cannot compete with superior intellect".

Who said that? Oh, yes - EDINBURGH'S FINEST (#96). Anybody heard a peep out of him since? Thought not. He must have "gone away to watch CBBC and let the big ones get on with some serious work. W-NKER".
112

,

10/03/2008 17:50:27
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113

W.Robertson,

10/03/2008 17:51:02
No 105, Bordererinengland, think you should stay where you are South of the Border. What an utter rubbish team you've picked. Would love to see the slaughtering they'd get. Cairns and De Luca... have you not been watching the 6 Nations? DeLuca has the DiRollo syndrome when it comes to International rugby and can't catch a ball if his career depended on it and we need Cairns in the centre!
114

Major General Puffin-Stuff,

10/03/2008 18:03:19
#113
Interesting thesis. Similarly, the English in recent years have (or have had had), as is well known, a Scottish assistant coach so presumably by the same token the English should be grateful to the Scots for the help they provided in their own defeat.........

Nice try!
115

Major General Puffin-Stuff,

10/03/2008 18:04:48
Sorry - "had" one too many!
116

kimba,

10/03/2008 18:19:02
116. Think you have,stop talking a load of pish!
117

Alex, Young Laird d' Drumchapel,

Madrid 10/03/2008 18:37:55
Have to agree that Robinson was the difference. And that from a nationalist;) The change of attitude was tangeable. Credit to Hadden though for bringing him in. A win would credit Robinson and a lose would heap criticism on himself. However he has to understand what Robinson has that works. This was no win that had been waiting to happen.

Scotland have good enough players, they are just waiting to be formed into a fighting unit and Hadden needs to marshall his resources to achieve that. Maybe this is a start..
118

,

10/03/2008 19:16:27
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
119

Malc.F,

france 10/03/2008 19:16:28
I promise never to mention it again if someone,anyone will come on and tell me why England nearly always get a ref from the Southern Hemisphere and promise off if told it is just coincidence.
I hated Moore when he played and yes he wants England to win but he is funny intelligent and knows his rugby,just thank the lord that Guscott is restricted to his smug studio banalities.
Try watching and listening to the appallingly biased commentary when Rangers play football if you want to hear jingoism at its worst.
" I wish I had said that " Oscar Wilde.
" You will Oscar, you will " James McNeill Whistler.
120

Lederblix,

10/03/2008 20:01:00
105: The booing was for Balshaw
121

HEN BROON 5,

HAPPY ALBA ;o))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) 10/03/2008 21:02:39
96 EDINBURGH'S FINEST,THE TOILETS MURRAYFIELD

Taken like a spring salmon.

Shown us all what you are, not only a shyte stirrer, but a shyte shifter.


Spoken like a true shirt lifting spineless loser.

I suppose you made a few quid with the English being in town.

Dream on bummer boy, now away and earn your rent.


Well done Haddens heroes, they don't like it up em.

ALBA GU BRATH.
122

archie23,

london 10/03/2008 21:26:42
Edinburgh's finest,

For a self proclaimed confident Scot you seem rather sensitive about other people laughing at 'us'. I really don't think you should worry about it.
123

EDINBURGH'S FINEST,

MURRAYFIELD 11/03/2008 10:32:08
Archie

Not worrying at all about it. Not sensitive about it other as I laugh at these tozzers too.
124

EDINBURGH'S FINEST,

MURRAYFIELD 11/03/2008 10:42:32
Morning all.

Hi Hen how are you? Did you get some food last night? Did much spray painting eh? You are SOOO easy to wind up as you are a simpleton and I love stirring it with you as you see, the joy about websites such as this is that no-one knows what sex I am, no-one knows who i am or what I do but let us just say I am closer to Scottish Rugby than you all think and there is a lot more that could be imparted onto this website but people's jobs would be at risk (not frank the w---nks) and that would be unfair from what, after all is meant to be a bit of fun. But HELLO Puffy Stuffy can employ them HE runs his own company WELL DONE how important you must be. I hope it is sucessful. Now Puffy what is all this nonsense about Merchant Schools? What is that all about? At least you didn't attend the school that is the shirt lifters known as Fettes? So you went to the BIGGEST and most exclusive FEE PAYING school did you BIG BOY. Do you think that makes you better than anyone else? Are we meant to be impressed? Bet you wear a blazer and school tie still nob. So mmmmmmm let me think having done some research into the matter that makes you a 'sonnie bum or a smelly and I think you fall into the latter catergory with your smarm. Anyway Puffy hope all goes well for you tozzer. And, no, I wasn't watching CBBC i was actually away making MONEY which of course Puffy and I seem to know about but Hen - well it seems from Puffy we didn't get the right education.
125

EDINBURGH'S FINEST,

MURRAYFIELD - SCOTLAND A TEAM ROOM 11/03/2008 10:49:34
Anyway folks forget Puffy and Hen.

Mrs Robinson for First Minister?
126

EDINBURGH'S FINEST,

sunny spain 11/03/2008 11:36:49
Alex #103

Rhymes with Frank!!!!!!!!!!! Tozzer
127

Major General Puffin-Stuff,

11/03/2008 14:19:23
EDINBURGH'S FINEST
".....just let us say I am closer to Scottish rugby than you all think....." ooh, err! Are we meant to be impressed? Still, that would explain a lot that is wrong with Scottish rugby at the moment. Do YOU wear the SRU blazer and tie?

Nice to see that you have the time to post during your school playtime.

What happened to the supposed manners you once boasted about?

Adolescent innuendo and abuse don't make the "superior intellect" you were claiming - run away and play, laddie.

128

Major General Puffin-Stuff,

11/03/2008 14:28:13
EDINBURGH'S FINEST

By the way, appalling grammar, spelling and use of vocabulary at times. I bet you went to one of those minor public scools where the only entry qualification is money rather than intelligence.
129

THE DREADED SILVER CROC,

Chateau Croc, Mont Revard, Haute Savoie, France 11/03/2008 18:06:50
#132 BladeJohnny - Along with the delectable, succulent oohh-soo "snappy" Mrs Croc and numerous close friends such as Brigadier "Spliffer" McSporran Bufton-Tufton, Mr Eubank, Carlos the Jackal, The Big Bopper, Chantilly Lace, Dolly Parton (just a couple of points in her favour), Jeep Cherokee, Hootsmon Henry, Wee Ian Ruxton, King Tut, Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson, Queen Nefertiti, Commander Dan Dare, The Mekon and around other 20 hangers-on such as the SRU committee, Wee Wacko-Jacko, The Little Egg-Shaped Committee Man, Spex, DomeHead, The Nolan Sisters, the DSC is taking a little time out in the clear fresh air up here, free from the bombast and idiocy prevalent on this wobbly wxnkers' website.

The general standard is crap. Like the rugby.

Ignorant amateur theorists and pisspoor Administrator nerd - you deserve each other!
130

,

11/03/2008 18:07:43
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Reason:
131

Major General Puffin-Stuff,

11/03/2008 19:44:00
Jeez - does anyone know which planet THE DREADED SILVER CROC is from?
132

,

12/03/2008 09:31:12
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:

 

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