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Celtic hit European wall



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Published Date: 22 February 2008
THE proposition that, for the foreseeable future at least, the last 16 of the Champions League is the limit of Celtic's dream surely became unchallengeable by the comprehensiveness of Wednesday's defeat by Barcelona.
Barring a kindly draw at the first knockout stage – and that remains a possibility in any given year – the prospect of Gordon Strachan's side, without the acquisition of a clutch of top-quality players, making further progress seems remote to the poi
nt of unattainability.

If the 3-2 scoreline on Wednesday hinted at a riveting contest, it told no lies. But, even for the huge Celtic support noisily willing their team to succeed, the attention was unavoidably and almost relentlessly drawn to the sometimes mesmerising superiority of the winners.

In such mis-matches, the most immediate and striking disparity between the teams is in pace, athleticism, agility and awareness. Set beside the quick, intelligent movement and slick, incisive passing of the visitors, the Scottish champions appeared wooden and unimaginative.

Aiden McGeady was the single exception in the home team, the young winger in the first half demonstrating the kind of virtuosity that would have impressed even Frank Rijkaard, the Barça coach. That McGeady was able to reflect that "I only remember being on the ball once in the second half" was an indicator of his team-mates' failure to provide a proper service as they became pre-occupied with the Catalan team's swarming aggression.

Having started the move that ended with the header with which Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink gave Celtic an improbable lead and supplied the delicate chip from which Barry Robson restored it before half-time, McGeady thereafter was marginalised through no fault of his own.

Strachan, significantly in terms of putting Barcelona's performance into perspective, was almost nagging afterwards in dwelling on Celtic's shortcomings. Without resorting to potentially headline-making criticism, the manager nevertheless managed to convey to anyone who was paying attention that his team's collective weakness was as relevant to the outcome as the visitors' strength.

"They might have the best squad in the world, but only time will tell if they have the best team in the world," said Strachan, trying, in vain where some observers were concerned, to stress that any punter thinking of plunging on the winners for the Champions League itself should have a care.

"When we play opposition like that, we need nine, ten of our players to be at the very top of their form. We didn't have nearly enough playing to that standard. We didn't pass the ball well, we gave it away too often and when that happens, you have to chase, you get tired and make more mistakes."

These were observations that strongly suggested Strachan was not convinced of the likelihood of Barça coping with the heavy artillery they will encounter later in the tournament. That they will reach the last eight seems as near a certainty as it is possible to get in football.

Strachan's realistic post-match assessment made a welcome nonsense of some of the extravagant eulogising of Rijkaard's team, and of certain players in particular. Far from the "genius" Ronaldinho was said in some quarters to have exhibited, the Brazilian – facing a 19-year-old right-back, Paul Caddis, who was making his European debut – was seen only in fleeting moments, rarely imposing himself on the game as he once did.

When he was presented with the ball by Gary Caldwell's errant pass early in the second half, he could hardly have failed to pick out Thierry Henry, isolated just 15 yards away in the inside-left position. The France striker, predictably, completed the move with a right-foot chip that curled into the far corner to give Barça their second equaliser.

Henry, too, was acclaimed as a master for this exquisite finish, but the evidence of his overall performance simply vindicated the long-held conviction that he is a pale imitation of the force he was in his prime.

The goal he scored is Henry's party piece, as practised and reliable as a professional golfer's swing. Having scored the same goal maybe a hundred times in his career and probably a million times in training, he will still be capable of executing the shot in his street shoes when he is 60.

What he no longer commands is the explosive burst past opponents, his blinding pace diminished by the wear and tear of sciatica that has bothered him for almost two years. His goal apart, there was little sign of the great Frenchman terrorising anyone, not even a defence as pedestrian as Celtic's.

Lionel Messi, with his two goals – the first equaliser and the winner – Carles Puyol, Andres Iniesta, Deco and Yaya Toure were more impressive figures than the lavishly-feted Ronaldinho and Henry. But much more serious tests lie ahead.

For Celtic, there is only the sobering realisation that they are on a ladder from which, between their present position and the next step, two or three rungs are missing.





The full article contains 840 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 21 February 2008 9:36 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Celtic FC
 
1

,

22/02/2008 00:22:17
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2

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 22/02/2008 00:28:25
its funny for most of my young adult life celtic didnt stay in europe beyond christamas..now since the new millenium we have the second best home record in the cl..made a uefa cup final qualified for the last 16 2 years in a row..took the eventual winners into 210 minutes before they could beat us..and are left with a difficult but not ompossible task to qualify this year after one of the best european performances seen for a long time..the reward for all this..yet another negative pointless article in the scotsman..sad x
3

Fayneant,

NZ 22/02/2008 00:35:04
Unfair comment from GG. Celtic could have given half the sides in the last 16 a game, meeting Barca in this form would have given all but the very best a hard time
4

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 22/02/2008 00:37:48
#3 glad to see rangers great result has allowed you to see the negativity in this article..liked your webster comment as well..
5

I-Mac,

22/02/2008 00:39:12
#3, Barca have been in poor form recently. Did they suddenly hit the heights? Or was it down to the quality of the opposition?
6

Ian.M,

North Aytshire 22/02/2008 00:39:52
Celtic were there to hit the wall. Where does that leave the rest?
7

KILBOWIE,

22/02/2008 00:41:15
" For Celtic, there is only the sobering realisation that they are on a ladder from which, between their present position and the next step, two or three rungs are missing.", says Mr. Gibbons.

What exactly is sobering about accepting that we are not as good as the Catalan billionaires ?

What an utterly stupid statement !
You will be telling us next that Scotland won't win the World Cup.
8

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 22/02/2008 00:41:51
#5..havent i read this post on another thread ?? same answer imac..go on barcalonas website and read what the players thought of their performance...what did you think about it ???..must be difficult to recognise it as the same sport rangers are playing x
9

I-Mac,

22/02/2008 00:43:58
#8,

You've not really answered my question.
10

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 22/02/2008 00:49:28
#9 ill let the barca players answer your question

Speaking after the win against Celtic, Carles Puyol told reporters that Barça had produced one of their performances of the season.


Milito, Messi and Valdés also echoed the captain’s words. Pressure up field, possession and fluency in their passing enabled Barça to push back Celtic into their own third of the pitch. And this time control of the game was rewarded by goals. The players believe that the win will boost their confidence ahead of some tough league and Cup games.

Here is a selection of the players’ post match comments:

Puyol

“The team played well, even when we went behind”.

“I think it was one of our best matches of the season”.

“This is the road to follow but we mustn’t think that we’ve got it all done”.

“We had to recover that pressure. It’s what has given us a lot of joy in previous seasons”.

“We never have any complaints about our fans, not just today”.

“I honestly didn’t know that Messi and Touré were one yellow card away from a suspension, but I’m sure they did”.

Messi

“I’m happy with the result”.

“This result will help us keep improving”.

“Now the important matches are coming up”.

Valdés

“It’s not a decisive result”.

“Barça clearly dominated the match”.

“That’s football. Celtic take full advantage of the direct game and that’s what they did today”.

“I think Barça had a great game. We dominated every facet of the game. It’s a fair result”.

“Winning here gives us a lot of confidence”.

“We need his (Ronaldinho) quality and he showed a little of what he can do”.

Milito

“We played a great match”.

“I think it was one of our best recent matches, and in a very hostile atmosphere. We reacted well”.

“The fact that we’re all available again after so long is very important. Now it’s the decisive time in the three competitions”.

“It’s difficult not to concede goals. The opponents also play and have their virtue
11

I-Mac,

22/02/2008 00:51:44
#10, But my question was about the reason behind the sudden lift in Barca's performance. Did they really suddenly find their top form or was it about the standard of opposition?
12

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 22/02/2008 00:58:31
#11 apparantly it ws the first time all season they had their full squad to choose from and they were terrific..i know as a rasngers fan you find it hard to grasp that many very good european teams have came to celtic park and been unable to defeat celtic..so i think its churlish to suggest barcalona were only good because it was celtic they were playing..as i said it must have been difficult for you to rcognise the celtic barcalona game as the same sport rangers have been playing recently x
13

I-Mac,

22/02/2008 01:02:58
#12, Sorry if you were offended by my daring to question Celtic. You must find things very tough on here. As for your repeated attempt at a jibe, take a look at the league table.
14

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 22/02/2008 01:07:36
no offence taken..though offence was meant..barcalona were a joy to watch..and good to see the positive comments abouit the game (specifically barca) the atmosphere and the general sense of a special night being convade around europe..
the league table shows rangers 4 points ahead with 14 games left..2 old firm games at parkhead and rangers having at least 2 more away games to play..slag away in may..but i think ill be asking you to look at the league table by then x
15

,

22/02/2008 01:10:05
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16

,

22/02/2008 01:12:15
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17

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 22/02/2008 01:13:15
whats the odds of a rule change making the season longer..or will the spl force rangers to play sat mon thursday sunday to complete their fixtures before the split ???
18

Ibee,

Bangkok 22/02/2008 01:30:32
We were simply outclassed. A back four that's always vulnerable. You see this every week in SPL but quality of finishing there saves Celtic's bacon. A mid line that couldn't really get a hold on the game leaving the vulnerable back four to deal with too much pressure. As usual in a big game Naka went missing, Robson too inexperienced and nervous at first. What's it with Donati? He's too casual by far, think he's in the Graveson, Jarosik camp. In Barcelona I'd put Naka on the bench and bring him on for the last 15 minutes or so. I'd go with Hartley and Robson Brown and McGeady.
19

walshy,

22/02/2008 01:55:59


Barca were a class apart and they did hit form, that said , when we did have the ball (not that often)it was our worst display at home in Europe for ages. That was the real disappointing thing apart from the 2 goals and very good goals there were, the other times when we did have the ball we wasted it with sloppy passing or lack of support to the player on the ball.

But the ball from Caldwell was shocking, it was a class finish by Henry, seen him do that strike a few times in the EPL. But it was shocking that we gave them the oppertunity so cheaply. Messi 2nd again a piece of class with the dragback to give him the angle and space to get the shot in, but freak break off of Donati's chest back down to him in the 1st place.

We know we need class players to mix in with the team, but for all the possession Barca had it was in the end a shocking pass to Ronaldino only 30 yards out and a freak break for Barca to beat us 3-2.

GG may have rambled on a bit and some comments were uncalled for but bottom line, we will never be able to get the sort of players Barca and the other top 5 or 6 clubs can. At most we will be able to fork about £5/£6m tops on one player and that will be the 1 big summer signing with other smaller buys.

But what do you get for £5m or £6m , when you have to pay that to get the like of Brown from Hibs. Go to the EPL and they are paying £16m/£17 for Darren Bent ! I mean come on .. We would have to get lucky but its only once every x amount of years that you get a £300,000 Lubo and a £600,000 Larsson but that is what we have to do.

Saying that GG again was right with luck of the draw, I am sure we would be looking at the last 8 if we had drawn Liverpool or Chelsea.


20

celticdaft,

Toronto 22/02/2008 03:11:25
#3 I agree. barca played really well. Celtic couldnt get a grip on the second half at all. Against the bulk of the other teams in the last 16 celtic would have been better. Not saying they would have won over 2 legs but better for sure.

I think this kind of article just reflects the kind of postings you see on these comments sites. Lets face it ...how many postings over the last three weeks from celtic fans saying the league is sown up because of the 3 results since the transfer window closed. All this despite the fact Rangers keep winning and are still 4 pts ahead. Can't really complain if a writer comes along and says celtic won't progress beyond last 16 ever based on one result. Its the same point really. Its written just to get the comments going.

Last night about the green white and gold flags being a national shame are the level this comments board is at, so you can't complain if the journalism is not much better. About 10% of the comments are intelligent constructive comments about the actual game. The rest are Celtic fans or Rangers fans trying to get one over on one another or dragging the discussion down to the level of flags or songs or what a hun is. Who gives a sh1t.

Celtic still have a shout and will give it a shot in 2 weeks. Rangers are through despite not winning 6 european games. Good for them. Can't argue with that if you qualify for the last 16 without getting a single point away from home. Any Celtic fan faced with that as a method of more european football would take it.


21

Colin P,

22/02/2008 03:51:42
15-16
I can honestly say I've never been quite so intrigued by a post, or two.
What exactly is the significance of your use of capitals for entire words? I was trying to find some sort of code, but it was gibberish, like most of the post.

Please, keep in mind that Rangers lead your lot by 4 points, we're still in 4 competitions...while you're about to be reduced to 2. We drew Barca at home, keeping them off the scoresheet. You allowed 3 at home.
What language is CHAMPIONEES? It's not in the dictionary....lol
walshy has it right. Celtic could have done so much better.
Caldwell and McManus were dreadful, sorry to say. Surely WGS could have found someone better?
Barca are a class act. This class did not suddenly appear in time to play Celtic. They were class in both games against Rangers, but Smith had them figured. A draw and a 2-0 loss was not bad for a rebuilding team against such class.
Let's hope Celtic can make something of the away leg, but I really feel they're not up to the task.
Any team can be beaten on any given day.
22

,

22/02/2008 03:54:08
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23

Colin P,

22/02/2008 03:55:54
#20
the result in Athens, 1-1 is a single point away from home.
What's your point?
24

hoopsandy,

22/02/2008 04:12:03
#23
I must applaud Rangers for making the next round of the elite European competition with two of the most memorable draws against a team that were one of the favorites to win the top club competition
25

Colin P,

22/02/2008 04:30:56
There are two elite European competitions. Have a look at the teams remaining in the UEFA and gnash your teeth...Bayer Leverkusen, Bayern Munich, PSV Eindhoven...
The list goes on. Oh, how Celtic will wish they had these teams to play next month....lol
26

Colin P,

22/02/2008 04:40:50
24 Let's all slag the other Scottish team.

The fact that two Scottish teams have gotten this far in Europe is amazing.

Like I said, if Celtic can pull it off, my hat's off to them. The further we both can go, the better!

Last year, Rangers lost out to Osasuna by a goal. They went on to lose to Sevilla in the final.
Scottish teams are doing well. Let's praise that rather than trying to score points over one another...how parochial.
27

Pat the Hat,

Baile atha Cliath 22/02/2008 06:32:06
I thought WGS was naive with his initial selection and didn't seem to me to be able to respond to events on the field.

At HT, we found ourselves, incredibly, 2-1 up and, once again, the wee man decides to go for it – shades of Artmedia – instead of locking up the middle of the pitch.

Barca were passing through us for fun and, quite simply, none of our substitutions made any sense at all. To bring off one fullback for another was inexplicable, IMO

A five-man midfield for 25 minutes after HT and then bringing Samaras on for the last 20 might – just might – have paid massive dividends.

To be fair to the manager, no one can budget for silly individual errors by experienced players – Hartley trying to dribble out of his own area for the first, Caldwell – I'm a ball-playing centre half, me – sending a 15-yard pass to the chest of Ronaldinho. As for the last goal, words fail me.

Anyway, we are Celtic fhans and we shall keep the faith! It would be just like our club to win its first away game in the CL and go out on away goals.
28

JayJay,

Right here 22/02/2008 08:33:00
GG seems to forget that, on form, Barca have done this several times. In a match at Stamford Bridge, with Jose in his pomp, they played probably the best 30 minutes of attacking football I have ever seen. The difference was that Chelsea had the quality to retaliate. We have Gary Caldwell!
The real issue playing Barca is that they tend to attack with six players. On Wednesday, Puyol and Abedal were pressing high up the pitch to negate Naka and McGeady. Add to that Ronaldinho, Messi, Henry and Iniesta all running forward, and you have a serious problem if you continually give them the ball back.
I have to say Celtic looked a bit over-awed. But, if I was a manager, I would have something of a tactical issue with their formation. If you play them, and open up, you get picked off. If you sit in, you have to hope they are either off form, disinterested or happy to settle for a draw. It was clear after 5 minutes they were not here for a draw.
My only criticism of Celtic was in ball retention. Otherwise, what can you do when playing a team who had pass completion accuracy of about 90%. I think it pretty churlish of GG to chose to reflect on Celtic's deficiencies rather than applaud a side playing in a 2-2-6 formation in an away tie!
29

Old Siggy,

Dunbar 22/02/2008 08:51:57
At least WGS was honest enough to admit our failings. The midfield in particular was disappointing with Naka AWOL most of the time. Brown would not have made a difference since Barca would just have passed the ball around him. No Scottish team will progress to the last 8 until we learn to keep the ball but, in turn, the fans must learn patience. All too often a nice passing move ends with the long hopeful punt because the fans get on the players' backs. While I think we did all we could with the 7 or 8 players who stepped up to the plate I am pi**ed off with the Henry goal. How many goals did he score for Arsenal coming in off the left. WGS should have drummed it into the players that 9 times out of 10 Henry will take it on.
30

Hoop,

Carnoustie 22/02/2008 08:58:50
"It would be just like our club to win its first away game in the CL and go out on away goals."

You're probably right there, #27.

Radio Scotland reported an astonishing stat during the second half - at that point, Celtic had completed just about 100 passes and Barca had completed over 500.

We were 2-2 at that point but the signs weren't good!
31

Armo,

22/02/2008 09:47:37
I don't usually moan about articles but get real Mr Gibbons. He seems to be incredibly surprised that Bercelona were better than Celtic!

With insight like this sir you might one day become noted in your profession, although I won't be holding my breath......

Next week's exclusives from Mr Gibbons:

"It has come to my attention that bears have been found to defecate in wooded areas"

"The man that lives in the vatican and leads a church is indeed of the catholic faith"
32

Sarajevoiwasthere ,

London 22/02/2008 09:47:54
James what planet are you on. What you're saying is if Barca had been a bit more clinical, 20 shots on goal, you would have been humped 10-2. Doesn't look good does it.
The most dissapointing aspect of Celtic's performance, with Europe looking on, was the diving and cheating that the rest of us have to witness every week in the SPL.Embarrasing for Scotland.
33

,

22/02/2008 10:11:45
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34

Zed's Dead,

22/02/2008 10:16:04
#15 - Joe Murphy (sorry for the delay, the problems with having to work!) - Why question the SPL's ethics in re-scheduling the New Year OF match? This seems perverse in the extreme. It was not the SPL that curiously requested it be postponed. We all know the tragic circumstances of the previous week, but why did Celtic request that postponement. This has always truly baffled me. Was there any member of the Celtic playing staff who even knew that Phil O'Donnell was a former player? The game is has not yet been re-scheduled because Rangers continue in 3 Cups in addition to the SPL fixtures. It is not like Rangers are dragging their heels in playing SPL matches. They want the league won as quickly as possible too. I am also mystified as to why Celtic fans might want to get their teeth into an OF match any time soon. Might be better to focus on beating St. Mirren.
35

celtc r atrocious,

sydney 22/02/2008 10:52:15
have to say on a celtc post
this is one result that we bears might regret in the final wash
unless we get smith / webster / thomson / and the rest back on board then it could be we are stretching resources and spl results might suffer
36

paulmac,

surrey 22/02/2008 11:04:53
#36

Why did the SPL turn Celtic's request down....and then go and ask Rangers about a postponement?

Now that has always baffled me!
37

paulmac,

surrey 22/02/2008 11:06:44
#38....James

As Chucky says.....he's a liar!
38

Sarajevoiwasthere ,

London 22/02/2008 11:09:38
So you start all discusions LIAR LIAR. Or is it because I'm black. Ali G in, Diving Samaras out.
39

Royalty,

22/02/2008 11:14:40
I do feel for Celtic fans. Its hard to accept being knocked out of Europe, but when your rivals continue to stride forth, its even harder to take.
It will be interesting to see how this effects confidence, will the hoops bounce back? Tough wee game against StMirren coming up, the saints appear to have stopped lying down to the hoops as in days of yore. Rangers face troubled Gretna, double figures could be on the cards. Difficult times for Strachans men. For Walter Smith, his 60th birthday will be celebrated in style on Sunday. Many happy returns Walter.

40

paulmac,

surrey 22/02/2008 11:15:15
Regards the Barca match....no complaints....Barca were superb....

Most European teams visit Celtic Park...with a 4-5-1 and sit in to hit on the counter....

Barca came and played 4-3-3 because they know they're good enough to do that....and at times it looked and felt that they were in actual fact playing 2-1-7....

Their technical ability was outstanding....their pace and movement was second to none....I have never seen a european team visit CP and play that well for 90 minutes as Barca did on Wednesday...

Their football was an absolute joy to watch.....and I have no problem with Celtic getting beat by a team playing such fantastic football....

I honestly think even if Celtic had played a whole lot better on the night....we would still have struggled to cope with the Barca all out attack approach...

In matches like that....you just have to hold yer hands up and say....Barca were simply superb!
41

Media 1,

cape town 22/02/2008 11:18:45
I think this article is unfair!

I sat and watcheg the game here in South Africa on ESPN 2, and like the commentators, I was impressed by Celtic.
If you are serious about football, then prior to a ball being kicked you knew two things.
1. Barcalona are by far more superior than most teams not just Celtic

and

2. Celtic at home will not roll over and die regardless of how outplayed they are.

In the end, we saw the Barcalona class that we knew existed before a ball was kicked, and we saw Celtic do what Celtic do in Europe, and that is carve out chances and score goals in games they should have no chance of scoring in.
Celtic may have been outplayed, but then against Barca that is to be expected. And they may have lost 3, but they scored 2 and led twice. And for that they must be applauded.
42

paulmac,

surrey 22/02/2008 11:23:38
I think if we had been beaten on Wednesday by a team that we had out played.....then we would indeed be deflated.....

But we were provided with a football exhibition that was simply superb....and I didn't...for one second feel disappointed at the result on Wednesday because Barca were simply superb....

You have to hold yer hands up and accept when yer beaten by a team of the superb quality of Barca....

As to yer own team....still competing in the European equivalent of the plate trophy....well done!

Any Rangers result was always going to be positive for us....you lose....we give you some stick....you qualify....you've now got more games to fit in?
43

Zed's Dead,

22/02/2008 11:39:06
#36 - Paul Mac - this was not my understanding. A simple request for postponement from Celtic leaving Rangers with no option but to accept. Just why the original request was made is a mystery to me.
44

,

22/02/2008 11:50:30
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45

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 22/02/2008 11:57:55
#47 oh dear i thought all that rubbish had been left behind..or are you being ironic...
46

,

22/02/2008 11:58:05
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47

paulmac,

surrey 22/02/2008 11:58:59
#46

The SPL turned Celtic down!

The SPL then consulted with Rangers.....

Hey presto....

The SPL then advise Celtic the game can be postponed!

Funny how football works sometimes?
48

paulmac,

surrey 22/02/2008 12:00:34
#49

No....only the Ibrox son's of Satan would go down that road!
49

,

22/02/2008 12:05:50
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50

Xacobeo Hearts,

Santiago de Compostela ...at work! 22/02/2008 12:21:57
To I-Mac and various others...

Ok I might only have caught the final 30 minutes of the game on Wednesday BUT I have watched 90% of Barça's games this season and I can assure you that is as good as I've seen from them so far. Certainly the best away performance.

And yes, there might be a difference in the level of opposition - Celtic actually being better than a fair few of the Spanish teams they've come up against (..erm that doesn't include Caldwell factor though!!!)

Will be interesting to see how they do this weekend.

No love at all for Celtic within a Scottish context but I can happily leave that behind in Europe.

Total respect from me there.
51

stefano,

Birmingham 22/02/2008 12:28:34
Love the dismissive attitude to the UEFA Cup - don't recall any of it in 2003 when Sellik took five million fans to Seville.

The facts:

Rangers are through :-)

Sellik conceded three 'away' goals and will either have to win by two clear, or score 4 and lead, to progress in the Camp Nou.

Deal with it.
52

Media 1,

cape town 22/02/2008 12:30:52
The O'donnell tragedy was a real blow to the SPL in its entirety because all the pro's would have felt a sense of loss.
But that said, the Celtic VS Rangers postponement appeared to have less to do with grief and more to do with points. I doubt Celtic would have asked for the postponement had they been scheduled to play Killie or St Mirren for example. I dont buy the minute silence worry, because that is avoided by the minutes applause.
But moving forward to where we are now, it seems that Celtic will need to play Rangers at Ibrox again, before any game is played at Celtic Park. And Celtic wont beat Rangers at Ibrox unless its in the context of a CL game....
53

Pat the Hat,

Baile atha Cliath 22/02/2008 12:38:22
"When your rivals continue to stride forth…" Ho! Ho! Ho!

Royalty does it again! Listen, I'll try to make this simple for you. The Thread Bears have reached the last 16 of the selling plate trophy. Celtic have reached the last 16 of the Blue Riband tournament, which your motley crew could not after bottling it at home..

Celtic have already reached the final of the selling plate trophy. Until you emulate that, keep your gas at a peep – you are embarrassing yourself.

I'm half hoping you get past Werder to get to the QF and get humped out by some English dross like Bolton – now THAT would put in perspective Rangers place in the world.

"Stride forth…" Oh my aching sides.
54

LETS ALL LAUGH AT THE CELTIC BEGGARS,

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA 22/02/2008 13:13:51
#59 To answer your question, WGS was naive, stubborn, stupid and does not have a clue about tactics.

He is also completely useless when it comes to buying players.

"Who knows what will happen in Spain"....here's a wee clue for you....Barca will run all over you once again, making celtic look like exactly what they are.....GARBAGE.
55

Batesey,

22/02/2008 13:21:33
I think Celtic had to try to go for it after half time. Conceding the away goal, and with Barca making some defensive errors, we had to go to try to get a 2 goal advantage. Nobody could see us not conceding in the Nou Camp.

Fair play to Barcelona, as they were clinical with the chances they got, and Caldwell pretty much killed us. However, we do have enough pride to try and win home games, even against superior opposition.

56

Batesey,

22/02/2008 13:31:38
#60 - We actually qualified to earn the right to play Barcelona in the last 16. Rangers had to take the umbrella route of UEFA cup. The difference between Rangers and Aberdeen in Europe is Rangers haven't played Bayern.

If Strachan is naive, then how would you define getting thrashed at home by Lyon in terms of tactical nouse?
57

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 22/02/2008 13:37:38
#62..ah yes the "forgotten" european match....a rangers fan was actually posting to slag celtic off for losing 3 goals at home in the cl...d'oh..to be fair he hasnt posted since..x
58

Batesey,

22/02/2008 13:41:19
#63 - Perhaps the most intelligent move that he has made thus far. Given his "witty" moniker and then the subject matter of his post, I would suggest he should avoid further self inflicted damage.
59

Royalty,

22/02/2008 13:53:14
#58 Pat the hat,
Glad I managed to cheer you up. No doubt we'll also be striding forth (there I go again) on Sunday with another 3 SPL points a collected. The goal difference should get a real boost into the bargain.
We realy do welcome the chase & look forward to seeing how Celtic cope with the pressure.
Glad to hear you will be backing us to beat the Germans in the next round. At least it will give you a European interest over the coming months. Enjoy!
60

Batesey,

22/02/2008 14:08:07
Personally I would rather dine at the top table for a short time, than "stride forth" to the childrens table on borrowed time.

We acheived the last 16 in the worlds premier club competition, and however unlikely, we are still not out. I suspect that Werder Bremen will be getting to the last 8 of the reserve league in Europe.
61

DalryMassive,

Edinburgh 22/02/2008 14:10:25
Outplayed, outclassed and out of their depth. And out of their minds if they think they can turn it round in Camp Nou.
62

Batesey,

22/02/2008 14:15:33
We were all of those things, however, 2 goals is in improbability, not an impossibility.

Greece won a recent European Championship. Not 1 person would have said that prior to the tournament starting for fear of being sectioned. I suspect we'll go out, and probably it has the potential for embaressment, but you have to hope.

We'll see if the same folk are crowing after they play their last 16 tie.
63

Batesey,

22/02/2008 14:22:20
P.S. Apologies for the use of the word "sectioned". I understand this may be a bit of a sensitive issue to some people just now for obvious reasons.
64

Hugh Hefner .,

22/02/2008 14:25:10
I reckon Celtic can/will improve on this level of perfromance next year.

In defence, I'm sure that Hinkel and a better left-back than Naylor would see an instant improvement in the side. A better CB than Caldwell would do likewise.

In Midfield, Hartley offers almost nothing against this class of opposition. Jury is out on Robson as it was his first match. Scott Brown should still be around next season, as should Aiden. This will offer us something better going forward. Still like to see someone more better at keeping possesion, in there. Dare I say it, a wee bazza-baws clone, without the striking resemblance to the banjo playing kid in the film Deliverance. And naturally, aware that hes not actually as good as the press like to make him out to be and yes, a lot less of a phud in general. It was the inability of midfield, other than Aiden, to keep possession that killed us.

Up front, on our budget, we have been doing well. McGoals, JVOH and Samaras are about the best we will be seeing, and to be fair McGoals and JVOH have done very well. The dutchman now looks like hes stopped wearing his addidas clogs on to the field and is playing like a Dutch international. Lets hope it continues.
65

Hugh Hefner .,

22/02/2008 14:27:01
71 - "someone more better" - I appear to have turned into Charlie Nicholas!

Forgive me, it was the stress of watching that game on Wednesday night!
66

Royalty,

22/02/2008 14:27:15
#68 Batesy
It alway's intrigues me when Celtic fans denegrade the UEFA cup. After all, a good number of you went to the final in Seville. So it sounds more like sour grapes than anything else.
67

Boyne Bhoy,

22/02/2008 14:31:46
Of course Celtic fans enjoyed the UEFA Cup, particularly the occasion of going to a Final. To suggest however that reaching the last 16 of the junior tournament is a greater achievement than reaching the last 16 of the premier tournament flies in the face of logic. That's all.
68

Hugh Hefner .,

22/02/2008 14:33:02
Royalty,

I will never denegrate the UEFA cup. Its a good tournament that admittedly would have more prestige if C-grade outfits like Rangers were not in it, but it provided me with a great season and is a well worthwhile venture. Its been won by some famous teams and there are some famous outfits still in it.

Good luck with that one mate!
69

jerrymanders,

The Big Cup is Best 22/02/2008 14:33:06
#72

I think you'll find that your lot were denigrating it back in 2003!!!!!
70

Batesey,

22/02/2008 14:44:48
#72 - Royalty - In the previous format, when we went to the final, it was a far more creditable competition. You actually had to win a few games to get to the last 32.

Given that Celtic's achivements in Europe are being continually discredited by Rangers fans, I think asking me that is somewhat hypocritical. Have you not read the previous and numerous posts on this matter by your fellow Rangers fans?
71

Royalty,

22/02/2008 14:47:48
#75 That is true but you know that was a mixture of more sour grapes & tongue in cheek. Probably a hint of envy as well.
The UEFA cup is a braw looking trophy & when viewed up close (Ajax museum) it is a real work of art.
#73 Of course reaching the last 16 of the CL is a great achievement, nobody would argue with that.
However as headline says, Celtic hit a European wall. Like Charlie Adams backside, theres no way round it.
72

Batesey,

22/02/2008 15:11:09
I should also re-iterate that we are not yet out. It seems a strange thing to be writing obituaries prior to a death.

Our best hope, is that we can contain them for around half an hour, hope the home fans get on their teams back, as they have been doing lately, and somehow, someway manage a couple of counter-attacks which may result in goals.

I recall Rangers fans and the media(one in the same) saying similar things when we had to go to Anfield during the run to the final. We still managed to beat them there.

Would anybody have imagined Rangers beating Lyon away from home. Strange things can happen in football, and that is what we hope for.
73

Dubai in Lagos,

22/02/2008 15:25:25
I think that had Celtic bolstered the centre of defence either last summer or in January they would be an entirely different proposition. You cant play at that level with Caldwell and I will never understand why Strachan has failed to bring in new blood in this area. Does he really think that Caldwell was ever the final answer? Anyway I enjoyed the Celtic game and not just because they lost. Good game to watch.
74

Batesey,

22/02/2008 15:31:43
The problem is attracting a central defender of sufficient quality at a reasonable price. As both sets of supporters will surely know, our best bet in getting class players capable of taking that exta step up is either Bosmans or damaged goods for one reason or another, especially with cup tied players in January.

Nobody is under any illusions that Caldwell is out of his depth at that level, but there isn't too much point in bringing in a slightly better player at a high cost. We tried to address the issue by loaning Van Buyten, but to no avail.
75

Hugh Hefner .,

22/02/2008 15:42:09
I think that its possible to pick up young players who have promise. Let them use us as a stepping stone. That has to be the ideal situation for a team in our position. Unless we can grow them ourselves.
76

Batesey,

22/02/2008 15:49:22
Agreed. I think the boy Hutchison is a prime example of a young player using us as a stepping stone. If he's good enough it's an arrangement that suits everyone.

Until we can find some way of trying to gain financial parity with the rest of these elite clubs, it'll always have to be that way.

I still think we are moving in the right direction though. Regardless of the current league standing, our team is better than last years, and they are fairly young and will improve as a direct result of lessons like wednesday night.
77

paulmac,

surrey 22/02/2008 15:57:34
#78....Batesy

Optimism is a wonderful thing....but as a Celtic fan...the only way we will progress....is if Barcalona withdraw from the competition or play ineligable players!

I can't see it my friend....Barcalona are beyond our reach!
78

paulmac,

surrey 22/02/2008 16:05:12
#65

"The goal difference should get a real boost"

What....with 4-5-1.....

There's no doubt you should win against the unpaid and managerless Gretna....but don't expect it to be above 3-0!
79

Royalty,

22/02/2008 16:14:45
Paulmac, Re 4-5-1
Many of the big clubs use that system nowadays.
Arsenal, Rangers, Man Utd to name a few.
I'll probably take my calculator on Sunday, just to keep count.
#84 "I can't see it my friend....Barcalona are beyond our reach!" So are Rangers buddy.

80

Batesey,

22/02/2008 16:20:16
paulmac - I agree that it is incredibly unlikely, but I'd rather the players went out beliveing they can do something, and our fans getting behind them.

Barca are out of sorts at present regardless of wednesday. Worse teams than Celtic have had results against them lately.

I prefer to live in hope than fear. We have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
81

Batesey,

22/02/2008 16:22:48
#85 On what do you base this belief that Rangers are out of reach?

4 points and the height makes them dizzy. I think we had a similar advantage before our ropey spell. Lets see how your youth policy lasts over a long season.
82

Media 1,

cape town 22/02/2008 16:36:28
#87 batesey

I dont think the out of reach comment is about the four point lead, its more to do with the 20 point turn around in such a short space of time under WS.
If that is the sort of pace that Rangers not only closed the gap, but also bypassed Celtic, then one can only assume that once this season is done Rangers will continue to create more of a gap between them and Celtic.
83

Hugh Hefner .,

22/02/2008 16:38:58
85 - Dream on mate. These teams rarely play the old 4-4-2, but they certainly dont play the same system as Rangers. And if you're not a complete plonker, deep down, you will realise that.

But anyway, formations dont mean that much, its the intent of the players on the field that counts.

84

Hugh Hefner .,

22/02/2008 16:45:20
Media,

"then one can only assume that once this season is done Rangers will continue to create more of a gap between them and Celtic"

No mate, one can only assume that if you say it, it will happen a lot differently. History tells us this is more likley to be the outcome!

PS - For what its worth, to improve Rangers, they will need to buy better players than the ones they have. Better quality than the McCulloghs, Broadfoots, Darchevilles - do you think that much will have changed come June for this to happen? If your being honest, probably not!



85

Media 1,

cape town 22/02/2008 16:51:04
Hugh

I dont know what will happen, you are one hundred percent correct. But there is no way that Rangers should be anywhere near Celtic this season based on the gap that existed. Rangers reeled Celtic in, and then had the cheeck to surpassed them. To add insult to injury they have not lost to Celtic in 3, nor lost a goal to them.
I can only go on the info at hand, and currently that info points to Rangers winning the league.
But you are right, my predictions are crap, so best you find out who the bookies have down as favourites, they almost NEVER get it wrong.
86

Batesey,

22/02/2008 16:58:46
#88 Media - Apologies for the delay, I had to get some work done.

I think that you are labouring under the assumption that Celtic's end of season form was representative of competitive matches. We really did just stop playing after Christmas.

I'm sure you would agree that the home team in old firm fixtures would be the favourites to get the win. On that basis, Rangers have gained a sum total of 1 extra point on Celtic this season.

I should point out, that although Whittaker is a good fullback, he cannot play both sides simultaneously in the 1 game. If you imagine for a second that Broadfoot or indeed Papac can do anywhere near the job Hutton did for you, in terms of going forward and raw aggression, then you are due to come crashing back down to Earth with more than a 4 point bump.
87

Media 1,

cape town 22/02/2008 17:04:58
Batesey

To be honest, I dont care who wins the league, I just think it will be Rangers who will win it..WGS cant beat WS, and Rangers have the psychological edge, and we all know what that means.
Rangers in the league are like Celtic in Europe, and that is why Rangers have won over 50 titles leaving Celtic in their wake, and Celtic have a European Cup, leaving Rangers in THEIR wake, in European football.
88

Batesey,

22/02/2008 17:11:16
Media

Can you please, for the benefit of the forum, remind everyone how many of those 50 titles Rangers won prior to Celtic competing in league football. This seems to often be forgotten when making reference to this feat.

To say there is a psychological advantage to Rangers is really a Scottish-media driven spin, which I doubt any of the players believe.

Celtic need only look at being in the last 16 CL twice consecutively to see if they are lesser players.

I firmly believe the game at Ibrox took Strachan by surprise, as he would no doubt have expected slightly more ambition at Ibrox than 1 up front. He got his game plan wrong. Having now seen the glory of Rangers tactics under Smith over the course of this season, I suspect he'll come to the realisation this time that it'll be the 4-5-1 with a kick on site policy every other old firm game.
89

Media 1,

cape town 22/02/2008 17:15:14
Batesey

Well Celtic were formed in 1888 and Rangers first title was in 1891 I believe...So you tell us!

And once you do that, maybe you can tell us the head to head count? Or maybe you shouldnt, it might make you sad.

I just think that Rangers will win the league, they look up for it and appear to be carving out results and not losing goals. There is no way that will suddenly stop happening, which is why the bookies have them down as favourites.
90

Batesey,

22/02/2008 17:24:15
Media

Celtic may have been formed in 1888, but that was as a non-professional club. They did not take part in the league until 1896, upon which Willie Malley won 6 straight titles. I trust that this clarifies that matter.

Any clown can look up google to see head to head records, so if it interest you, then you should.

They are grinding out results just now, but with very little genuine cover in place for the remainder of the season. If Weir or Jaws gets injured, how long will the injury plagued Dailly manage as cover, or perhaps we'll see the return, or start of Webster.
91

Media 1,

cape town 22/02/2008 17:28:46
So Celtic joined the league 5 years after Rangers first title, but are now 11 behind? Poor show indeed.
AND yes any clown can look up the head to head stats, but they wont change, Rangers I believe are 30 odd wins ahead in all time head to head OF games. That says it all really.
You keep going on about these WHAT IF injuries. So what if McGeady, McDonald and JoH get injured tomorrow and all of them are out till the end of the season?
If is a big word, which is why you need to concentrate on what IS...Four points!
92

Batesey,

22/02/2008 17:34:22
Given that Rangers formed in '72/73 I think, you could say that it was a very poor show indeed from them based on your logic to only start winning trophies in '91.

If McGeady is imjured we have Mizuno, Robson, Hartley or even Riordan who are capable of doing a job.

Further to the injury front, we have Samaras, Killen, Hutchison etc. Not the same standard, but a more fragrant brand of rubbish than the dross Rangers have in reserve.

You mention bookmakers quite alot, which is counter-intuative of someone not wanting to play the IF game.

You have also mentioned that you don't seem to care who wins the league, but yet defend Rangers vehmently. This again is fairly counter-intuative.