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Fury as Old Firm demand slice of ticket money from home clubs

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Published Date: 19 July 2008
SPL clubs were today up in arms over a bid by Celtic and Rangers to impose a levy on every ticket they sell to their fans for away matches – a move which could cost the rest of the league hundreds of thousands of pounds.
The Evening News has learned that the Old Firm have written to every club warning them they intend to grab five per cent of the ticket money as their reward for providing such a service.

The proposal is in direct contravention of SPL rules which s
tate that clubs pass on every penny of the money raised from selling tickets for away matches to the home outfit concerned. Although the letters from Celtic and Rangers arrived separately, the News understands they were posted on the same day and were worded exactly the same, proof, some might say, of collusion between the Glasgow giants.

The move is being seen as a blatant attempt by the Old Firm to flex their collective financial muscle and is certain to be resisted by their fellow members of the SPL, each of whom would lose money should Celtic and Rangers be successful. Each club would be affected to a varying degree depending on the allocation of tickets given to the Glasgow sides but most would lose large five-figure sums based
on two visits from each over the course of a season.

While Celtic and Rangers would argue that their massive travelling supports help swell the coffers of their rivals and some clubs raise their prices for visits from the Old Firm, their move has dismayed opposition outfits who were not consulted in any way before the bombshell news was delivered.

The Old Firm have also proposed that other clubs keep five per cent of the money brought in from selling tickets to their fans for trips to Ibrox and Celtic Park but the allocations they receive are much smaller meaning they'd get less cash.

The News understands there has been no concerted opposition to the proposal as yet with individual clubs pondering as to how to respond to the shock plan which will be tested for the first time on the opening day of the new season when Rangers visit Falkirk.

It is believed it has already been pointed out that under SPL rules they cannot deduct any money but the News understands counter measures are being discussed if Celtic and Rangers cannot be persuaded to stick to current arrangements.

One suggestion is that the Old Firm themselves introduce a "handling charge" to cover the cost of providing ticket office services along the lines of the booking fee imposed when buying briefs for a concert.

An alternative may be that clubs will decide to sell direct to Celtic and Rangers fans rather than provide the clubs themselves with an allocation of tickets. Such a move would have serious implications for season ticket holders of the Old Firm who, while not guaranteed tickets for away matches, usually have their names entered into a ballot ensuring they can see at least a number of away games each season.

Selling direct would give Celtic and Rangers fans without season tickets a much greater chance of watching such matches but there is concern such a course of action might raise some safety issues in that present arrangements allow clubs to closely monitor to whom briefs are being sold.






The full article contains 575 words and appears in Edinburgh Evening News newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 19 July 2008 11:33 AM
  • Source: Edinburgh Evening News
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: The Old Firm
 
1

Indy Rep Kid,

19/07/2008 11:43:39
And here was me thinking that Celtic and Rangers were rivals, rather than partners.

Oh well.
2

The Gorgie Boys Are In Town,

19/07/2008 12:07:11
Start charging them £60-70 quid then greedy slime bags, in fact an all out ban from Tynecastle that would be great

about time we punted them over to ireland
3

Jamboman1874,

Methil 19/07/2008 12:13:16
"in that present arrangements allow clubs to closely monitor to whom briefs are being sold."

So how come they cannot identify those that spew out the sectarian bile from both sides???????
4

paulmac,

surrey 19/07/2008 12:16:43
The other SPL clubs only have themselves to blame....

They were the ones who insisted on the current format and split set up we have...

The reason?

So they could earn more money from Celtic and Rangers....

The alternative....

Withdraw your tickets...and lose a great deal more!
5

RampantBluenose,

The Ether 19/07/2008 12:18:00
Face it - you need the old firm and have been sponging off us for years. You complain that we steal your players yet you are happy to take player off us. Our support, more often than no outnumbers the home support.

The Jambo's have a cheek - paid for your manager yet?
6

LionheartFodithman,

19/07/2008 12:24:29
Add 5% onto the price of the away ticket for the partners in crime and let their own fans fork out for the increase.
Problem solved !!!
7

DB1,

19/07/2008 12:24:53
Good move.

The rest of the league have been milking the Rangers and Celtic cash cow for too long now.

Fans of both clubs effectively keep the rest of the SPL in business, and its about time they realise it.

A serious dose of reality needs to be dished out to the clubs who think they can charge Rangers and Celtic fans £30 to sit in a stadium that wouldn't look out of place in the Andorran league.
8

Nod,

19/07/2008 12:26:58
fair do's.

memmo to hibs(and other clubs), stick 10% on face falue when old skirm visit. easy job done
9

Jenny MacArthur,

19/07/2008 12:32:12
Football supporters are funny! Most can't string a sentence together to discuss anything more important in the world. Then they obsess about their tribal hatreds and the politics of ticket prices. Losers!! Ha ha ha ha ha!
10

Europal,

school 19/07/2008 12:42:14
10/11 Try relevance
11

,

19/07/2008 13:00:27
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12

ClaretnAmber,

Florida 19/07/2008 13:04:41
Too bad the EPL won't take the OF (and I don't mean "Firm"). I suppose they could try just playing each other the entire season but I think it's been proven that the sun does not revolve around Glasgow.
13

,

19/07/2008 13:12:28
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14

Reg, Perth WA,

19/07/2008 13:20:27
They have been partners to their OWN ends since day one, do not be deluded by the bigotry, they have used that increase their coffers since day one too.
gg2th
15

Splash,

Broxburn 19/07/2008 13:26:43
All SPL sides get together & just restrict the OF fans in our grounds. Only give them 1000 tickets per game at most, they are just a bunch of holligans anyway. Look at the Uefa Final. Embarrassing for Scottish football. If OF getting even greadier in their attempts to weaken the other sides hit their fans hard. They'd soon realise they're selfishness & retract their 5% claim. Let them join the EPL & see how they feel being the smaller teams with no say. Again they'd realise what it like to be a smaller team being used.
16

Jasbar,

19/07/2008 13:27:24
Two teams play in a game. It takes two to tango as they say.

How about a straight 50 50 split in all gate receipts?

And a 50 50 split in all television money.
17

Londonsteve,

Edinburgh 19/07/2008 13:38:28
Stuff them. If this comes off, all the other clubs should resign and form their own league minus the ugly sisters. Solidarity required!
18

mambojambo,

19/07/2008 13:47:11
If the OF want to change the rules, there are SPL procedures for this to happen and not by writing threatening letters to all the other clubs. Another example of their arrogancs.
19

Robbo1874,

19/07/2008 13:47:16
Dirty bigoted scumbags. Can't stand these cretins. Send them to the Premiership and see them rot. They will be in the Championship in a flash competing for the play off place if their lucky. It's about time something was done about them.

SCOTLAND'S SHAME!!!
20

Private Pike,

19/07/2008 13:47:36
#23 If the OF want fairness and equity in the league then they would adopt your very fair and equitable suggestion. The priciple is established in the Cup competitions. I know its different because there are no guaranteed home games. But just the same....

The best solution of course would be for the rest of the clubs to vote to break away from the OF dominated Premier League like they did before. Only, this time have the bottle to see it through.

Imagine a Scottish Football league without the sectarian poison and hatred that the OF encourage among their supporters. Imagine Scotland not being disgraced by the behaviour of the OF support when they travel. Imagine no Manchester OF riots. Imagine no planes being diverted because of the OF fans. Imagine it then let's tell our clubs to get rid of them.
21

KILBOWIE,

19/07/2008 13:48:56
It seems that most people don't realise that football is a BUSINESS.
Celtic & Rangers are the biggest players in that business. Their concern is for their own club & its customers, who provide most of the football revenue in this country.
They have no moral obligation to their rival clubs.
The majority of 'the others' do everything they can to squeeze the last penny out of the Big Two. There is no pretence of any respect for the Glasgow supports at other grounds. They are regarded as a necessary evil.
They are a nuisance, but they fill the coffers.
They bring thousands of fans to every ground. In return they receive a few coach loads of die-hards who sit in an almost empty away section of the Glasgow grounds, surrounded by empty seats which could be sold to home fans unable to get a ticket.
It is a one-sided arrangement.
It is unreasonable for the Big Two to be expected to provide ticket office staff at their own expense to sell tickets to thousands of THEIR customers, with the revenue going entirely to the rival club.
It would not happen in any other business.
Scottish football has a few harsh lessons to learn.
Like the Good Book says,...'Charity begins at home.'
22

Robbo1874,

19/07/2008 13:54:17
#29 That was a complete waste of my time reading that. I'm quite disgusted with myself for actually sticking with it to the end.

Read it over mate and give yourself a a good slap. What utter nonsense.

SCOTLAND'S SHAME!!
23

KILBOWIE,

19/07/2008 14:02:24
Ach, don't be disgusted with yourself, Robbo.
You are being too hard on yourself.
You are probably quite a nice guy, really.
24

GrahamH,

Edinburgh 19/07/2008 14:03:17
#7. Good idea, plus say another 10% for the administration.
25

dannybhoy,

19/07/2008 14:11:20
i reckon celtic & rangers are being a bit over zealous here
26

Robbo1874,

19/07/2008 14:13:47
#31

Cheers buddy, I am come to think of it. Just get a little bit upset when I see such clear ignorance and stupidity in such a posting as #29.

I will not lose any sleep I suppose...just have a good chuckle to myself.
27

,

19/07/2008 14:14:12
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28

,

19/07/2008 14:16:51
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29

LionheartFodithman,

19/07/2008 14:16:56
Wouldnt the season be really interesting if there where only two teams playing each other every week.
As usual the opinion of the ugly sisters is that the rest of Scotland owes them for allowing them a game a few times a season.

Shameful.
30

,

19/07/2008 14:20:35
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31

ses,

Pencaitland 19/07/2008 14:22:52
Hibs and Hearts can get by without the Old Firm. We don't need their fans, or their teams, to get by.

Tell them where to go and then we can have a more competitive league where everyone can win and everyone has a chance of getting into the Champions League.

As far as I'm concerned, Glasgow is another country, a no-go area. And that's where their teams should be.
32

Robbo1874,

19/07/2008 14:24:04
#39 Well said mate....they can take all their referees with them as well....SOCTLANDS SHAME!!!!
33

Robbo1874,

19/07/2008 14:24:44
#40 haha...SOCTLANDS!! you know what I meant!!
34

jambo malky,

Edinburgh 19/07/2008 14:33:43
Being a Hearts fan, I would say we stand to loose less than most in terms of lost revenue, but consider this- How much would the police bill reduce by if we(all other spl clubs) banned the scum from our grounds?
35

jambo malky,

Edinburgh 19/07/2008 14:43:06
#29
"charity begins at home"
Correct- so stay there!
36

KILBOWIE,

19/07/2008 14:43:21
Let's be perfectly honest. Without the Big Two there would be NO TV contracts, & without their travelling supports, Scottish football would be the equivalent of the Irish League.
Can you imagine trying to sell Motherwell v Inverness Caley, or St.Mirren v Hamilton, to a TV company ?
What do you imagine the viewing figures would be ?

Of course, it is a shame. However, that is the reality.
37

Lion-O "Lord Of The ThunderCats,

19/07/2008 14:48:29
Away fans don't go to Glasgow for two reasons - Strathclyde Police and the stewards. Both of whom make it as uncomfortable as possible for away fans as they can inside an out of the stadium.

It wasn't so long ago that both Glasgow clubs had falling attendences and welcomed fans from other clubs to their games. Now it seems that sheer arrogance and greed have taken hold at both clubs.

I cannot see any of the other 10 SPL clubs voting to allow this change to happen so if it is implemented then the OF are acting illegally and then we will see the mighty power of Lex Gold swing into action - aye right!

EPL rules should come into play here. Teams are allowed a maximum number of away fans at each ground - not a percentage of the stadium capacity. If the OF only give away fans 1000 tickets then that is all that the OF fans should get for away grounds as well.
38

John H,

edinburgh 19/07/2008 14:48:49
Without doubt like peas in a pod. Couldn't live or exist without each other and the bigoted garbage that they stand for. Truly a disgraceful decision but entirely predictable. The other clubs should refuse to give them any tickets regardless of the financial implications because they will be off at the first chance they get without thought for the rest. Might even force their hand. It WOULD only mean a better future for the game in Scotland.
Trash the two of them.
Shameless and blameless like two bullies.
They will not be happy until they have the last footie in Scotland.
39

leith keely,

edinburgh 19/07/2008 14:49:07
#36 rantic f.c join the english premiership? who writes yer scripts brightbhoy? does anyone in full command of their faculties actually believe the epl would actually accept these mindless bhigots into their league with all the sectarian guff that accompanies these retarded soapdodging morons? i doubt it very much though i do recommend they apply to join one of the irish leagues because either of them have no place in scottish football with their sectarian baggage they are detested by every fair minded football fan the world over.
40

,

19/07/2008 14:53:30
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41

Hibby Fox,

19/07/2008 14:54:37
Bye Bye and fuuuuuuck off to the EPL, Scotlands shame the two of yeh, Ram yer fees up yer preverbial and buy some soap , nobody wants you or your Bigoted ways, and why is SPL allowing the Bigot brothers to break the rules ??????????????????????
42

,

19/07/2008 14:55:42
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43

jumpship,

Edinburgh 19/07/2008 14:57:03
The funny thing about this is all the old firm fans trying to defend their clubs .

Its simple . If the old firm get their wish. All its going to do is push the cost on to the old firm fans . Rangers and Celtic fans will be paying more to go and see away games.

Ur own clubs are selling yous out.

The jokes on you.

Celtic & Rangers = Scotland not so secret shame
44

,

19/07/2008 14:57:21
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45

,

19/07/2008 14:58:44
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46

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 14:59:48
jumpship, 51

I'm well aware of the shame that is RFC FC....but cannot fathom why you would attach shame to Celtic.

Please explain.
47

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 15:00:58
leith keely,

sectarian baggage?

Celtic?

Any examples?
48

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 15:02:23
John H, 46

Similar challenge to you....

Yep, RFC's shame is universally recognised, but your criticism of Celtic FC is hard to fathom.

Please explain.
49

,

19/07/2008 15:02:43
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50

,

19/07/2008 15:03:37
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51

jumpship,

Edinburgh 19/07/2008 15:06:17
56 Impetuous_Peter,


Have a wee peek at youtube mate . You will find lots of bigoted Celtic cr*p on there.


Celtic & Rangers = Scotlands not so secret shame
52

,

19/07/2008 15:07:29
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53

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 15:08:34
trueblue 58

What a bizarre post.

Now you insist all at CP is goody goody.

How strange.
54

jumpship,

19/07/2008 15:10:22
60 Impetuous_Peter,

LOL You are a complete loser.

Go get a life before its to late.


Celtic & Rangers = Scotlands not so secret shame
55

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 15:10:58
jumpship, 59

Do you - or do you not - have ANYTHING that justifies your comment re Celtic?

Yes, we have errant fans.....like EVERY other Club....but do you have ANYTHING which suggests our Club has done anything wrong?
56

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 15:11:30
62: see 63.
57

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 15:13:47
jumpship

You'll be aware RFC operated a policy of discriminating against Catholics for decades.

Do you condemn RFC fopr that?
58

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 15:15:12
Guys,

is it not the case that the worst fans for bigotry in Scotland are:

1/ Rangers
2/ Hearts
3/ Kilmarnock

Then surely those three are Scotland's shame?

59

John H,

edinburgh 19/07/2008 15:18:29
56
I can tell you what to do to find out.
Go to your next home match dressed in your opponents colours. You will then hear the abuse, experience the threat of violence and more than likely be spat on. If you are blind to it just now you would not be later.
Shameless and blameless especially if you cannot see.
60

Walkin Dude,

19/07/2008 15:20:32
Try adding the vermin from the piggery to your list.

I used to work with a group of them - their highlight of visiting the San Siro; kicking a steward in the head through their supporters banner so he couldn't identify who it was. One of them even videoed it on his mobile.

Another bragged about battering a 12 year old after a Newcastle pre-season friendly simply because he was wearing a Newcastle top.

Total scum and a disgrace.
61

Dood,

19/07/2008 15:21:12
Firstly, nice to see the usual bigots have infected the thread. Well done.

Secondly, I don't really see the issue here. If they want to charge 5% for selling to their own unwashed hordes then let them. The simple solution is to simply charge the unwashed an extra £2. Oh hang on, this contravenes SPL rules? Well hey ho, so does the levy.

Thirdly, just to address the suggestion that the likes of Hibs and Hearts milk the manky ones. If both teams were to finish in the top six (it's a distant dream Jambos, I know) then the ticket revenue gained (for Hibs anyway) is circa £350k. Hardly a life changing sum of money. Bear in mind however that for league games last season, Hibs had less home fans in their ground for OF games than they would have had for games against Well, Dons etc. Solution - Do what the Yams did and cut their allocation. It's high time we started standing up to these crettins.
62

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 15:24:03
JohnH, 67

I'm not the sort of guy who could dress in the colours of FTP_FC.

Anyway...what you have described is the animosity that exists between football rivals.

Nothing to justify earlier comments.
63

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 15:25:19
Walkin Dude 68

So, some football fans behaved in an appalling way?

Errr....so?
64

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 15:27:13
Dood 69, thanks for joining me in my contempt for the usual bigots.

I do, however, find you reference to manky ones deeply offensive.

It shows YOUR lack of class.
65

Viewer,

WA 19/07/2008 15:28:05
#63

Have you ever even thought about using your own questions against your comments about Rangers Football Club. CLUB or errant fans?

Bit two faced or what?
66

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 15:30:15
Viewer, 73,

Yes, of course...

The Club: decades of institutional bigotry - bl00dy disgrace.

The fans: the most bigoted fans in Europe. Absolute disgrace.

Hope that helps....
67

,

19/07/2008 15:30:29
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68

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 15:32:28
AndrewS, 75

What a bizarre post.

What do you think the Holy Father could do to help?
69

leith keely,

edinburgh 19/07/2008 15:32:40
#50 truespew, the only people who have any time whatsover for "rantic f.c." are their own moronic fans, i`m not a catholic but i loathe the sight, sound and SMELL of both of sets of your fans, theyve besmirched the good name of scottish football for nearly 130 years now and i`m embarrassed to call myself scottish when talking to football fans from other parts of the world because they all know what "rantic f.c." represent ie, mindless, sectarian hatred and bigotry, "rantic f.c" are a cancer in scottish football and when cancer is present you have to go in with a knife and remove it, so away and play with your flute bigot boy.
70

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 15:34:26
leith keely 77

Is the bad behaviour limited to Gers & Celts?
71

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 15:42:24
So, now we have established that posters making criticism of Celtic FC a short time ago are unable to substantiate their comments.

Really, they should apologise.

But what inspired their criticism?

Stupidity or bigotry?
72

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 15:43:12
pundit 77

asked anyone in Manchester re Rangers fans?
73

leith keely,

edinburgh 19/07/2008 15:46:57
#55 impertinent-peter, any examples???? yes, several thousand examples, i used to work on belfast-stranraer ferry and we used to get about 700 of your lot every weekend travelling over to your matches every weekend, what a shower of dirty uncivilised vermin they are, urinating in front of women and children, sexually assaulting female crew members,deliberately setting the ship on fire, shouting slogans in support the i.r.a and shouting "kill the brits" and that was them on a good day, mind you! the blue half of tour team that is "rantic f.c. were not much better, so be off with now wee boy.
74

J80MBo,

19/07/2008 15:48:25
rangers and celtic can put this levy in place if they want!

all the other teams need to do is pass the cost of this onto the old firm fans by putting the ticket prices up!
75

,

19/07/2008 15:50:59
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76

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 15:52:21
leith keely, 82

Unable to answer my question?

I asked for examples of sectarian behaviour?

Dont you have any?
77

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 15:55:11
pundit 83

List the people here who are saying Gers are hated worldwide.

What was the view of RFC and their scvm followers when Utd were unable to parade their Champions League trophy through the streets?

Disappointment?
78

leith keely,

edinburgh 19/07/2008 15:55:19
#78 no, bad behaviour is not limited to celtic and rangers but sectarianism IS and always will be limited to the soapdodging followers of rantic.f.c. which is an embarrassment to scotland and it`s people, it`s time they were removed but the english won`t touch them with a bargepole, even the irish baulk at the idea, might i suggest they apply to football leagues of iraq or afghanistan but they would more than likely get a k.b. from them as well.
79

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 15:56:48
pundit 85

We agree on something!

A straightforward boycott would help certain Clubs understand the real economics of Scottish Football.
80

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 15:57:48
leith keely 89

Yep, sectarianism is RFC...and bad behaviour is widespread...so WHY have you attacked Celts today?
81

Dood,

19/07/2008 15:58:35
#72 - Lack of class!!! Nice one, thanks. Best one liner on these threads in weeks.
82

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 15:59:24
pundit 91

"#87 if you are saying that the old firm are not guilty of sectarian behaviour then you must be living on another planet!"

In which post did I say that?

Sectarianism has been widespread and rife amongst RFC fans for decades.


83

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:00:16
pundit 91

"#88 being a regular on these forums i have came across the claims of the old firm being hated worldwide many times"

I asked for a list?
84

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:02:00
Dood 93,

Thanks. Now that you recognise your problem, I hope you can take steps to address it. Good luck.
85

mrhibs07,

Trucking About 19/07/2008 16:02:21
i do a lot of work south of the border. And have a large Hibs sticker on the window of my truck. Which is a good way of sparking a coversation. And let me tell you weegies. You are not wanted in the EPL. just like you are not wanted in Scotland. So it looks like we are stuck with you. God help us.
GGTTH
86

leith keely,

edinburgh 19/07/2008 16:03:14
#87 is shouting slogans like "up the i.r.a. and "kill the brits" not sectarian enough for you? the wearing of black berets and sunglasses(i.r.a. uniform and widely accepted as such) was also part of the norm, singing obscene and sectarian songs about the bombings of omagh and inniskillen and other mass murders perpetrated my this lowlife scum and to think we had to accept it because "it was part of our job" i rest my case.
87

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:03:15
pundit 98

It's OK.

I knew all along you were talking sh|te.
88

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:06:35
leith keely, 101

Nope, they are as entitled to their political perspective as the next man.

The UK would be a sad sad place were certain political ideologies banned.

A contempt for a country that brutally murdered and maimed thousands of innocent men, women, and children is surely NOT sectarianism.
89

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:07:22
pundit 104

Awww....you're feeling upset cos I exposed your nonsense!

Dont worry....you'll get over it!!!
90

Dood,

19/07/2008 16:07:31
#100 Mr Hibs, welcome back, hows tricks?

This is what happens on the rare occasions that the old firm stories have open threads next to them. I thought that the EEN and Scotsman had worked out that if you open up an Old Firm story with a thread, then the usual bigoted halfwits attached themselves to it. Count the number of postings above, how many relate to football?

But then they don the old self superior, we're better than you hats, entering self denial mode.

Whatever............
91

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:08:47
hibs 100

Nonsense!

I have lived in England for 20 years, and the fact of the matter is:

Celtic - welcome

RFC - not welcome.
92

mrhibs07,

Trucking About 19/07/2008 16:10:17
#103
Since when have we mentioned any request to play in England? I think you'll find it's you lot that want to play down south. You muppet.
Afternoon dood.
93

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:12:25
pundit 110

Oh, I'm fine - I can support all the statements I make here.

You cant.

When challenged to substantiate, you failed. tut tut.
94

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:13:04
WATP 111,

Yes, RFC are certainly tops for bigotry.
95

mrhibs07,

Trucking About 19/07/2008 16:13:48
#108
You are both as bad as each other. I travel all over England. From tyneside to cornwall. And i hear a lot of opinions. You are not wanted in the EPL. Get used to it.
96

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:13:58
pundit 113

No, those are your words, not mine.
97

Dood,

19/07/2008 16:17:11
#109 - Well done for dragging your knuckles off the ground to type such a constructive post. Neanderthal (check the dictionary, sorry big spelling book, for definition).

Mr Hibs, I'm outta here. May defect onto a Yams thread. I'd prefer to be nice to them than get involved with these mindless bigots.

Note to Scotsman publications - Please close this thread down immediately. And learn not to open any more attached to OF stories in the future.

GGTTH
98

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:18:11
Hibs 116,

Ah, the age old as bad as each other myth...

For decades, RFC had an anti Catholic bigotry at its core. Celtic FC have always been open to all.

In the last few years, RFC have been condemned twice by UEFA and once by SFA for mass sectarianism. How many convictions for such offences has CFC had?

For decades, thousands of Gers sang the joys of wading knee deep in the blood of Catholics - and €ucking the Pope. RFC could have stopped them, but didnt.

To cash in on the bigoted £, RFC marketed an ORANGE strip when the Club colours are red, white, and blue.

So, stop the lying, please Hibeeee!
99

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:19:29
pundit 118

Are you drunk?
100

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:20:43
pundit 119

Oh...right...

"you claim celtic are not guilty of sectarianism"

In which post # did I make this claim?
101

jambo malky,

Edinburgh 19/07/2008 16:20:58
#109
WE don't need you ya eejit!
It would be a much better league without you both, attendences would be UP at all grounds, and all the non weegie o.f. fans would support more local clubs.
Why don't you self loving idiots understand this?
102

Dood,

19/07/2008 16:21:02
#122 - Correct, and well done for being big enough to admit it.

Impetuous_Peter - Have you been reported missing from the institute yet?
103

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:21:19
pundit 124

Errr....what?????????????????????????????????
104

The Gorgie Boys Are In Town,

19/07/2008 16:22:48
OF weegies bring nothing but shame and carnage wherever they both go, just what they are used too. Scottish football would thrive without them and attendances would rocket at all grounds for the chance to see a level league, one which isn't corrupt to the core with old filth bias and money and as far as big clubs go, they are an embarrassment to be representing Scotland, fo to Ireland or the welsh league as the English can't stand you either.
105

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:24:31
pundit 122

LOL!

Can anyone imagine an Englishamn saying...

Oh, yes, we welcome the Pope €ucking hordes that rampaged through Manchester, causing huge damage and disruption, stabbing a Russian fan, savagely kicking a stranded Policeman, and had he not been saved by a decent man God only knows what would have happened to him....

They're quite a civilised bunch.....and they really DONT want you savages.
106

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:24:55
129: Why?
107

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:26:13
pundit 132

sectarianism in my Club?

Really?

Any examples?
108

Dood,

19/07/2008 16:26:15
#130, Spot on mate.

I just wish Hibs would follow your lead and slash their allocation. Would also save the cooncil a fortune in street cleaning with 2000 less swamp things infecting the Capital.
109

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19/07/2008 16:27:17
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Dood,

19/07/2008 16:27:32
#134 - Yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnn.

You really are on another planet, aren't you? What medication do you take for the self denial?
111

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:28:29
Gorgie 130

Worst scvm in Scotland: RFC

Second: HMFC.
112

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:29:07
Dood 138

So....you have no examples then?
113

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:34:33
pundit 141

You say no problem.....and then fail on two counts.

1/ No sectarianism. Just an affection political ideology you cant tolerate.

2/ I didnt see anyone from the Club in any of the footage.

Try again.
114

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:39:09
pundit

see 125.

No answer?

Why?

Been caught lying?
115

The Gorgie Boys Are In Town,

19/07/2008 16:39:41
135 If every team did it then it would clean up a lot of towns and cities. Still enough of them to smell out the place but not nearly half as bad as it used to be!!

The arrogance knows no bounds of there support,
i mean how much of the 125 million will Hearts or Hibs see for example, never mind St Midden or Falkirk not very much i would guess going on the way the evil forces of the bigot bros opperate.

Home gates would increase without the two of them but more importantly away gates will double at least also if the standard of the football improves which a division without the two most detested clubs worldwide would definately bring.
116

Dood,

19/07/2008 16:39:55
#140, plenty ya halfwit. It's just that I'm bored of you. I'd maybe take the hint - all of your other wee friends are deserting you, you're just embarrassing yourself now.

Keep denying it though, just keep it it your own mind that your pathetic club has no issues, no bigots, no sectarianism. Aye keep beLIEving.
117

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:44:46
pundit 144

I've seen those vids many many times.

No sectarianism present in any of them. Just a political ideology you cannot abide.

Were a man to sing Rule Britannia, can I deem it sectarianism?

You say it "might" not have been Celtic Officials. Let me correct you - there's no MIGHT about it. It WAS NOT Celtic officials!!!

Gers officials? The ones who marketed an ORANGE strip? The omnes who acquiesced in decades of F_T_P at Ibrox? The RFC officials who operated an anti Catholic signing policy for decades?

Errr...hello?
118

Dood,

19/07/2008 16:44:51
My final statement on the matter (no really!).

Perfect Peter - So you really believe that your perfect wee club is perfect, eh?

In which case you'll be able to provide me with concrete evidence that all Scottish Police Forces have made NO arrests of Celtic Fans for crimes of religious bigotry or sectarianism, and that NO Celtic fans have been convicted in court of like offences?

I'll save you the time mate. They have and they have. End of story.
119

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:46:50
pundit 147

Oh dear....

Let me ask you again.

You said:

"you claim celtic are not guilty of sectarianism"

In which post # did I make this claim?

120

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:48:19
Dood 151

How fascinating to see YOU claim that Celtic FC is perfect.

Prove it.
121

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19/07/2008 16:49:15
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Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:49:29
pundit 154

Err...but....I didnt make that claim in #94.

Are you able to stop lying?
123

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:50:26
Tim, 156

Aye, Tim, the outbreak of the old good v evil debate!
124

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19/07/2008 16:53:11
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19/07/2008 16:54:10
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Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:56:30
pundit 159

LOL - say it as often as you like....

Then perhaps you could just tell us about a forty year period where the Club discriminated against people because of their religious beliefs?

Rangers did.

Can you condemn RFC bigotry?

Can you explain WHY they did it?

Why have they not apologised?
127

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19/07/2008 16:56:54
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Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:56:55
Tim 161: LOL!
129

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:57:43
Tim, 163:

listening to the game on the radio (on web)
130

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:58:43
pundit 165

then will you provide the condemnations I seek in #162?
131

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19/07/2008 16:59:27
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Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 16:59:36
Tim

Go to this page and take a link from there...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/celtic/default.stm
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Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 17:00:34
pundit:

157?

Been caught lying?
134

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19/07/2008 17:04:25
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19/07/2008 17:05:44
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Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 17:05:52
pundit 170

Ah...right....but whilst I can (and have) provided a clear illustration of YOU lying, you cannot reciprocate.

So....YOU are the liar.
137

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 17:07:00
Tim, 173

Aye, they're a strange bunch!
138

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19/07/2008 17:07:40
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19/07/2008 17:07:43
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19/07/2008 17:08:15
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Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 17:08:21
177: the not so holy trinity?
142

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19/07/2008 17:09:23
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19/07/2008 17:10:24
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19/07/2008 17:10:41
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Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 17:11:43
Oh, the Blue Room is bare....
cos there's no trophies there...

Tim, you seen that sacrilegious vid?

It's quite funny!
146

Links Green,

Cloud 7 19/07/2008 17:12:31
OF brothers in hatred. The EPL doesn't want you, wake up to that fact. I hope all SPL clubs refuse OF fans tickets if they insist on this greed. NO PANDERING TO OLD FIRM SCUM!!!!!!
147

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19/07/2008 17:14:35
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Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 17:14:55
Tim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDcn61C-4z4
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Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 17:16:25
pundit

Cheeerio cheeerio cheerio
Cheeerio cheeerio cheerio
Cheeerio cheeerio cheerio
Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeerioooooo!
150

,

19/07/2008 17:17:43
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19/07/2008 17:24:08
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Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 17:29:05
Tim 192

I wish!

If I knew how to do that I'd be posting lots of vids on youtube!

Poor old pundit...a real sad case!

Despite today's result, I think we're looking good for the new season.

Did you see the game v Southampton last night?

Didnt wee Caddis look hot at right mid?
153

,

19/07/2008 17:35:30
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19/07/2008 17:36:17
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19/07/2008 17:38:52
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19/07/2008 17:39:41
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19/07/2008 17:42:30
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Santa,

greenland 19/07/2008 17:49:36
#156 Celtic could start a move to the EPL tomorrow.
A couple of million Quid would buy Carlise f c, a simple name change, a new stadium the other side of the border, a couple of promotions and your there.
Your bigot brothers could do the same in Berwick.

Go if you want, you won't be missed, Scotland will smell a whole lot better too !!
160

,

19/07/2008 17:49:41
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Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 17:49:51
Tim 198

Aye, I like Hartley too.

He's effective in a quiet way.

I just wonder how WGS moves us on a notch in Europe? (we're well ahead of anything in Scotland)

New left back?
New right CH?
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19/07/2008 17:50:45
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19/07/2008 17:51:44
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Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 17:51:54
SANTA 204

Are you saying Scotland stinks?
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19/07/2008 17:54:58
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Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 17:55:28
Tim 208

Aye, you're probably right.

Now, I wonder if Feynoord have any unsettled Swedish guy for sale for £650,000.......
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19/07/2008 17:56:30
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Franck,

19/07/2008 18:06:48
Easy way to stop the OF getting their hands on this money. Why don't the home team sell the tickets themselves. Either for away supprters or alternately if it is viable exclude the dross and sell the tickets to the home fans.

There is no need for Rangers and Celtic fans to attend. All you need is two teams and a ball.
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Santa,

greenland 19/07/2008 18:26:26
#209 IT does anywhere the Bigot Brothers go.
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Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 18:29:19
Santa 214

That's harsh - I've met many Rangers & Hearts fans and not all of them stink.
171

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19/07/2008 18:30:45
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Aliistair,

Sunny Leith 19/07/2008 18:31:45
Tell them to take a hike
173

Pazuzu,

19/07/2008 18:32:14
We don't need the Old Firm full stop.

They are and always will be the pondlife of Scottish Football - One supports Engerland and the other Ireland FFS :).

Fkn Lemmings and a disgrace to all things football.

Whereas us boys, we support Scotland.

GGTTH

GTFWB
174

Gorgie's Finest,

19/07/2008 18:40:34
Simple answer to this is give them no tickets.

Hearts have already slashed their allocation in the last few years. We would still have a capacity attandance without any of the OF vermin....

We dont need them. OR perhaps Hearts and the other clubs should write a letter to the OF demanding a share of the tickets when they visit Ibrox and Parkhead...

OF = Scotlands shame
175

Gorgie's Finest,

19/07/2008 18:43:57
Nearly choked with laughter at this part

"the Old Firm have written to every club warning them they intend to grab five per cent of the ticket money as their reward for providing such a service."

Providing a service???? what service do either of them provide? except coming through here, drunken manky mobs littering the streets, singing their sectarian bile and hatred. Thst the only service either of them provide when visiting either Tynecastle or Easter Road, a service we can do without.

OF, GTF
176

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 18:56:56
Pazuzu & Gorgie

Aye, yous would relish playing Rob Roy and Dunipace in front of 1500 each week.

And yous might even attract a really big start from Iceland to your cash strapped wee clubs.
177

sonofcosmos,

glasgow 19/07/2008 19:00:58
i couldnt believe the aticle actually said.
"The Evening News has learned that the Old Firm have written to every club warning them they intend to GRAB five per cent of the ticket money as their reward for providing such a service."

did the letter use the word grab..i would like to see that !!!! indeed the use of "warning" and "grab" and the fact its against the rules suggests someone may have been pulling the evening news leg xxx
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Pazuzu,

19/07/2008 19:04:10
Impetuous_Peter

Sssshhh, enuff of your p!$h.

Remember where you came from.

GGTTH

GTFWB
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sonofcosmos,

glasgow 19/07/2008 19:16:07
#224 "Dumpthe scum and let Scottish football be Scottish not run by some biggoted irish refugees"..mmm ironic or what ???
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19/07/2008 19:50:33
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Gorgie's Finest,

19/07/2008 20:04:01
#227

Have to say I dont like either of the OF anymore than the other I dislike them both equally. But you do have a point i agree with. Single demonational schools should not be allowed.

You wouldnt have a single race school, where all pupils have to be white, or black, or Asian etc.

However I do know their are some Schools that are RC that do accept other religions. I think though this is mainly mainstream schools though, reason being they are Govmnt run, state educational schools.

182

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 20:14:09
trueblue 227

You forgot to mention that wee Willie had called Johnny a dirty €enian bassa the year before they went to School.

Willie's dad - Fraternal Brother William - had told him so.
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Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 20:15:33
Gorgie 228

Catholic school not for you? Fair enough!

Is it OK if I send MY children to get educated to MY preference rather than yours?
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Gorgie's Finest,

19/07/2008 20:23:16
#230

Send your children where you wish to send your children.

However you seem to have missed the point.....but thats only to be expected from someone with a blinkered bigotted view of the world.
185

Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 20:40:33
Gorgie 231

Great! Then, I'll continue to send my children to that Catholic Primary School to continue the outstanding (OFSTED Mar 2007) education they're enjoying.
186

John H,

edinburgh 19/07/2008 20:49:29
This thread is a disgrace.
As bad as the Tic supporter in my local today who wanted to watch the RFC game only because they were being beaten.
For the sake of the game and your future sanity try to get out more and see the world.
As for Impetuous Peter. Are you allowed outside without supervision? I sincerely hope not.
You really have a mental block.
Sad really that anyone can spend so much time online and contributing so little of value.
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Gorgie's Finest,

19/07/2008 20:56:11
#232

Is that meant to impress me? or others?

I wouldnt like to embarass you by naming the school my children attend. Suffice to say that OFSTED report you seem happy enough with, justifies the amount of money it costs to send my children to the school.
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sonofcosmos,

glasgow 19/07/2008 20:57:15
#233 gee john in the horrid world of old firm banter i think you could have given a more dramatic example of bigotry hatred etc than
"As bad as the Tic supporter in my local today who wanted to watch the RFC game only because they were being beaten" !!!!! d'oh xxx
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Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 20:58:41
John 233: whereas your contribution was inspired! LOL!
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Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 20:59:31
235: devastating. Headline: Celts want Gers beaten shock!
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John H,

edinburgh 19/07/2008 21:05:49
237
One dimensional fool or what?
Does it matter.
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FC Barcelona,

Here 19/07/2008 21:21:28
Who are the old firm ?
193

Eddie,

Edinburgh 19/07/2008 21:27:03
Got halfway down this thread and then gave up.
What is it with this idiot Impetuous Peter?

I've never read so much self important, up his own ass, superficial, holier than thou craap!
If this is what Old Firm threads used to be like, its good that they don't allow them to happen so often now.
194

Neo,

Edinburgh 19/07/2008 21:28:19
The 'OF' would be better leaving Scottisg football and going to another League. The other teams will survive without their 'patronage'.

I want to see other teams win the SPL as that will make the SPL a better product than it is at the present time.
Neo
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Eddie,

Edinburgh 19/07/2008 21:33:26
Why do people keep talking about the Old Firm playing in the English League? Its just not going to happen.
The did broach the subject once, and the door was closed immediately. How can Scottish Teams play in the English League? It wouldn't be the English League anymore. Its just a total non-starter.
Before the know-it-alls come on about Berwick, there is an obvious financial and geographic anomaly, just as there as near the English borders with Wales.
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19/07/2008 21:42:12
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Dood,

19/07/2008 21:46:55
Brilliant, just nipped back to see if the halfwits were still there...... Oh aye, and they are.

Impetuous_Peter - You've shown yourself up to be a complete halfwit, either escaped from an institute, high on recreational drugs or transported in from a bygone era. Or all three. You, and others like you, are the reason that Scottish Football will never be rid of the cancer eating away at it that is the old firm.

Incidentally, Post 151 remains unanswered. Ironic that, eh? But then we all know the answer.......
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Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 21:49:45
LOL!!!

Dood 245

Post 151 was answered a few moment later....in 155.

I see your various adolescent insults. I'll leave that stuff with you. Thanks.
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Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 21:51:47
Eddie 241:

Truth hurting you?
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Dood,

19/07/2008 21:52:49
#246, two things

1) Not really answered, unless of course you're claiming that there have been none of the aforementioned arrests. Which would just be a plain stupid statement.

2) Not adolescent insults. Mere statements of apparent fact having read your deluded posts. An opinion that most of the latter posters seem to agree with.

Hee haw.
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Dood,

19/07/2008 21:59:17
Anyway, must dash now. I'm bored, have been reading your posts but they basically translate as:

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah..........
202

maroon74,

19/07/2008 22:07:16
Never read so much bile on an EN thread! I find it almost amusing the cr4p that comes from the bigot bros! I would love it if the 2 OF teams decided to go down south,however, please remove your grotty coupons from the glue bags lads.....the English don`t want you either!! The spl would thrive without you. No OF = better competition = higher gates all round. GTF and play each other in your own big league F4CKING DIRTY UNWASHED BIGOT IRA/UDA LOVING B4STARDS! Aaahh...feel better now i`ve got that of me chest!

P.s Bigot bros, don`t bother replying to my post as i gave up reading your cr4p half way through this thread!
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Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 22:11:21
Dood 248

Facts....my €rse!

So you really believe that Celtic is perfect, eh?

Well how stupid are you, Dood????


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Impetuous_Peter,

19/07/2008 22:12:28
moron 74, 250

Bigot brothers?

Rangers & Hearts?

England wouldnae touch either of you with a bargepole!!!
205

BEMUSED EXILE,

19/07/2008 22:16:53
Good evening Peter.

Entertaining the east coast hordes tonight?

Enlightening to watch you repel attacks against the OF whilst trying to distance yourself from Rangers at the same time.

'tis a fine line that you are being required to walk.
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Plantagenet,

20/07/2008 00:09:28
I'm sure that the Old Firm have the interests of other Scottish clubs and the advancement of the Scottish game at heart?????????????????????????????????????not!
207

Dood,

20/07/2008 08:34:19
#251 - Demented one.

Not so bright, are you? 'Perfect' was used in the ironic sense. Sorry you didn't get that.

Answer the question though. Arrests. Convictions. Or are you in denial?
208

Darren :-),

Edinburgh but on ma way to ibrox 20/07/2008 08:35:33
Jelousy the fact that the OF are the 2 most sucsessful clubs in the UK, and Rangers being the worlds most sucsessful with 51 titles (more than any other club in the world!)

how many SPL or infact, how many pieces of silverware have any other team in the SPL won? what about in euroupe? Lyon 0 - 3 Rangers, how about a good one here - BARCELONA 0 RAngers 0 - fact is we can hold barca to a draw - hearts got murdered 4 - 0 in PSF last seasson, what about the hibs this year...... hahaha - as for a comment about manchester, if you wernt there, you cant comment - chelsea, millwall, etc... i WAS there, clear to me that they were english

anyway - http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/ - check out the evening times, absolutly nothing about the story there - something tells me this is a nother attack by the bias EEN / scotsman trash on us
209

Dood,

20/07/2008 08:46:05
#258.

Please vacate Edinburgh immediately. It is a clean city and you are not welcome. I 'm not sure where exactly you are, but I can smell you.

Congratulations for managing the biggest sentence I have ever read. I think.

Oh aye, and cheers for Manchester. Loadsa laughs. And the best bit was that the English I know, kent well that the Old Firm are not typical of Scottish fitba fans. They now hate you as well.

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeee Hawwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!
210

NeonJambo,

20/07/2008 11:46:47
Lyon 0 - 3 Rangers, how about a good one here - BARCELONA 0 RAngers 0 - fact is we can hold barca to a draw - hearts got murdered 4 - 0 in PSF last seasson


------------------------------------------------

I would probably check the hearts v barca score.

Without the teams outwith the ugly sisters there would
only be the glasgow cup.

Maybe you should be paying us for the privellage of playing in our league.

I would freely agree to R&C leaving the SPL as u are clearly to good for us the Atlantic League or even the EPL!!!!!!!!!!.


211

Darren :-),

Edinburgh but on ma way to ibrox 20/07/2008 12:06:29
259 - since i was born here, and lived here all ma life, ill stay thanks very much.

What i'd like to see though, as a rangers fan is for both old firm, and the top 4 in the EPL to join another league such as a europeian league. It would kill the SPL however it would also make it better for the other non old firm fans, as it wouldnt just be us 2 winning the SPL all the time.

Its true that both old firm are too good for other teams i mean, between us, we have won the SPL since it was formed in 1998 and no other team has won it. Rangers with 51 (and counting) titles.

As for this ticket fiasco - home tickets for home support shoudl be sold by the club, however AWAY support shoudl be, only sold via the SFA/SPL website and offices. It would save all this BS about who gets a cut of what.
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20/07/2008 13:09:31
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maroon74,

20/07/2008 13:10:56
2 L`s in spelling! I hope you noticed that Darren? Ha ha!
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W s m,

20/07/2008 14:24:56
Let's not forget it is the old firm that fill you're grounds up.
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Darren :-),

20/07/2008 15:04:17
#262 - since i have dyslexia, spelling isnt my strong point. If you wish to make a joke at my expence due to my dyslexia, and autism, fair enough, your problem
216

Dood,

20/07/2008 15:51:07
#264.

Actually, where Hibs and Hearts are concerned, that's not actually true.

Funny really, there seems to be some agreement forming here - The Old Firm want out of Scotland and the rest of the country would be delighted to see the back of them as well.

Sadly, unlikely to happen though.
217

Huck Finn,

Leith 20/07/2008 17:45:18
Throw them out of the league. Money grabbing scum!
218

Plantagenet,

20/07/2008 19:34:12
256. No need for us to play Hibs every other week, we can play any team in the league outside of the old firm and have a good sized crowd in Tynecastle, I'm sure Hibs could say the same. The one benefit of not having the old firm visit Edinburgh would be being able to walk the streets to and from the match without being hassled by the vermin that follows the bigot brothers.
219

Gorgie's Finest,

20/07/2008 20:36:14
Pundit

In case you havent realised Hearts do not need either of the OF visiting Tynecastle. Maybe oter clubs need them ie, Killie,Motherwell,St Mirren etc. However Hearts are more than capable of a capacity crowd within Tynecastle with either of the OF fans. So basically their argument about a 5% cut holds no weight with Hearts.

Your allocations have been cut over the years, to i believe somewhere around 1300,and if you care to remember a certain Mr Anderton when speaking about the allocation reduction, he said eventually that allocation would be reduced even further, to I think approx 750. Before you say thats not possible it is, based on the percentage you have to give to away fans 750 is still above the percentage required. and is in FACT still a higher percentage of the total capacity Hearts recieve for either Ibrox or Parkhead.

Hearts also have the largest travelling support by far outwith the OF.So would it not then be reasonable for Hearts to also introduce this policy? as there are times we fill our allocation at away games, and could sell even more if given. However I don't expect Hearts and would not back them if they even thought about taking such a greedy and manipulative stance towards other clubs in Scotland.

The very FACT both the OF have done this, only goes to show, that while they may be the hottest of rivals, really they seem to control and try to manipulate Scottish Football for their own benefit. Thus contradicting their repeated statements and requests to have a more evenly balanced playing field and better competition within Scottish Football.
220

Gorgie's Finest,

20/07/2008 20:37:38
#271 Corrected

"However Hearts are more than capable of a capacity crowd within Tynecastle with either of the OF fans."

should have been

However Hearts are more than capable of a capacity crowd within Tynecastle withOUT either of the OF fans.
221

BEMUSED EXILE,

20/07/2008 20:43:39
I'm pretty sure that if the other SPL clubs truly felt that they could survive just as well without the OF, then we'd already have returned to a far more entertaining and equitable 18-team "once home and once away" league format.

It's precisely the greed of the 10 non-OF teams, who covet their three, or possibly four, games against both halves of the OF, that has caused the current status-quo in our top flight, despite the harm that our split-system does to our reputation.

Strachan and Smith have both spoken out against it.
222

Gorgie's Finest,

20/07/2008 21:27:03
#273

Post #271 was completely lost on you i see.

What part of Hearts do not need the OF money from travelling fans is you dont actually understand?

So perhaps by correcting your post to 8 or 9 teams, as i actually think Hibs do not need your fans either. Then you may sound slightly more plausible.

As for you 18 team league set up and playing twice a season. I and many others (Not just Hearts fans) have been in favour of this for a long time. Or maybe even a 16 team league play twice a season, and cut down on the amount of games, and then there wouldnt be the backlog that happened last season and the problems that went with it. The league would be more exciting, and not so repetative, fans would look forward to the games a bit more as only playing a team twice a season adds that little more bite to the game when it comes along. Other advantages would be the current SPL clubs would be able to feils more young Scottish players without having to worry too much about relegation, teams like your motherwells and killies, then by adding 4 more teams into the top flight gives an extra 4 teams a slice of the money and can improve them as well.

Of course I wouldnt expect any OF to agree with any of this....because it could threaten them.....and theres always the fact they would miss out on the extra two games against each other and chance for them both to spout their bigotted venom at each other.
223

BEMUSED EXILE,

20/07/2008 22:06:06
GF

I think I understand where you're coming from.

You don't mind the way that the OF raise the profile of Scottish football, and the consequent exponential increase in the amounts of TV and sponsorship money that this brings.

You don't mind the OF succeeding in Europe (last season Celtic reached the CL last 16, and Rangers the UEFA Final), and the resulting leap in Scotland's co-efficient, which increases the chances of progress for other SPL teams qualifying for Europe.

And a team such as Hibs, as an obvious example, won't mind the £8.5 million that the OF paid them in 2007 for the services of Whittaker, Thomson and Brown; money that helps to pay for the development of training facilities, stadium upgrades etc.

But you reserve the right to dislike the OF because, let's face it, they simply dominate Scottish football and leave the rest scrambling for third place.

Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.
224

victorian of gorgie ,

20/07/2008 22:07:25
old firm's perennial problem..... "the league isn't competitive enough to aid our european chances".

old firm's solution?..... burgle a few grand away from the already cash-strapped 'competitors' for the purpose of costs incurred for selling away tickets.

just when you think they can't stoop any lower, you get a wee wake up call to remind you just how selfish and arrogant these people are.

i say let them go ahead with their clever little plan. as a hearts fan, i would urge hearts not only to levy the same 5% charge on old firm tickets, but also to cut rangers and celtic allocations to next to zero and charge £50 a ticket.

hearts do not need old firm money but i understand other teams do need it. regardless, i hope to god that clubs will sacrifice a few quid in the short term in order to teach these money grabbing p***** a lesson hat they very obviously need to be taught.

225

Gorgie's Finest,

20/07/2008 22:11:43
#275 Pundit

Fair comment, however. Do you not think with a more competative league and a strong Hearts and Hibs teams, with the following of fans Hearts and Hibs have, then even more money could be generated through sponsorship deals and TV revenue?

So while the OF may help to being in sponsorship money and tv money Whch i add is not something they negotiate for for the rest of the league, or on anyones behalf it is done because they are the big two and sponsors and TV want to show them, they are also stiffling the competition and in the long run de-valuing Scottish football, which in turn stops even higher investment.

Catch22
226

Gorgie's Finest,

20/07/2008 22:17:27
#276

You cant bring transfer fees into the equation. If Rangers and Celitc are happy enough to pay that money thats up to them. If not Hibs could have found the same money by selling to English Championship or EPL clubs.

Do you think it is right though, since you talk about Scotland and co-efficients etc, that the OF buy Scottish youngsters to have them sitting warming a bench, and ruining their careers? this affects the Scottish national team by doing this. Riorden is a perfect example although you know and I know i could name many more.
227

BEMUSED EXILE,

20/07/2008 22:27:53
GF

Yes, Hibs could have raised that same money by selling to the EPL, but the product (ie, the SPL) would be weakened by the departure of it's best young players, which in turn would equate to an inferior product, which in turn would eventually lead to lower TV and sponsorship, so it's better that these players remain in Scotland.

I agree that it is unfortunate that too many young players become "bench-warmers" for the OF, but don't you think that these players should carry much of the responsibility for this? I'm sure that the OF don't sign them with a view to making sure that they fail. It's still better for the OF to top up their squads in this way rather than buy from abroad, which would mean big money leaking out of Scottish football altogether.

And let's look at something else, and I'll pick on Hibs again here. It seems to me that almost every time they sell a player they turn around beforehand and claim that they "don't need to sell". Well, if they really don't need the money, why don't they invest most of it back into the playing squad, and build a team that can better challenge the OF?
228

victorian of gorgie ,

20/07/2008 22:28:14
GF, while i admire your tenacity in attempting to debate the burning issues of the day with OF types, i fear you're flogging a dead horse mate.

these parasites THINK that everyone else in scottish football owes them a massive debt of gratitude for being gracious enough in allowing them to exist.

in reality it's the OF's oppression of all the other teams which has allowed them to artificially dominate the game for decades, thus allowing them to build the huge fan-bases of glory hunting, knuckle scraping neanderthals that they have, which allows them to coin in the huge revenues that they do.

the sooner the day comes when they can seriously look to joining the english leagues the better. i'm truly dying to see them attempt to bully the english with a similar racket to this one they've dreamed up.

229

Gorgie's Finest,

20/07/2008 22:46:05
#280

Cant disagree with you on the players fault as well, as it's their greed which attract them to the OF, and agree that Hibs being the best run club financially with "Virtually no debt" could have and should have been in a position to make better offers to the players. Riorden that i used as an example of being wasted can also be used as an example of how his greed has also cost him. It would also then be fair to say that both the OF youth policies are rubbish if they feel the need to buy yound players from other clubs. So perhaps a little more investment in that area from both of them would eleviate the need for them to buy from other clubs all the time, and making it less costly to you as well.

Points im trying to make and we could go round and round in circles all night and forever is though. The OF do not exsist for Scottish Football. the SFA was formed before them. Now both the OF and its fans have said they want a better competition, this would help them in Europe and also help other teams, which would in turn help co-efficiency, yet can you tell me how this can ever be achieved if they continue to steal from the poor. It's a complete contradiction in terms. When i mean steal i dont just mean this 5% levy they want to charge im talking about wanting extra revenue money, by paying ridiculous transfer fees for players (Naismith an example) was worth and is worth more than they paid, however more recently teams are holding out a little longer to try and get a fair deal but its not always the case, especially when the club needs and is desperate for income. Its not just a case of wanting a large squad or neding a large squad, it goes beyond that to basically stiffling competition, Buy from your rivals to weaken them purely because you have the money to do so and bully smaller clubs into selling because you know they need the cash. This weakens the league and competition, thus hampering your improvement on the playing side and and loosing ut on even bigge
230

Gorgie's Finest,

20/07/2008 22:49:45
CONT...

This weakens the league and competition, thus hampering your improvement on the playing side and and loosing out on even bigger sponsorship and TV revenue deals.

#281 Evenin Vic hows things bud? It can be very trying holding a civilised dbate with OF fans, especially if they only see things from their own perspective and only want to help their own clubs and stuff everybody else. An arrogant and bullying attitude. There are some though that can see past that, and can see the bigger picture outwith the OF.
231

BEMUSED EXILE,

20/07/2008 22:57:32
GF

You ran out of space there, but I take your points, and I sympathise with many of them.

However, Rangers and Celtic are businesses. They will always try to strike the best deals possible in the transfer market just like every other team in the free world.

As for the youth policies, as a Rangers fan I admit that it was pretty poor for a while, but that's not really a fair accusation these days. Players like McGregor, Hutton, Smith, Adam, Burke, and maybe soon Fleck have come through the ranks, while others like Hughes and McCormack were revelations at Motherwell last season. The problem is that success is expected and demanded by OF fans, and most of them don't have the patience to wait for youth policies to bear fruit.

The 5% issue at the heart of this article is a nonsense, IMO, and I don't seek to defend it, but I do think that Scottish football benefits from having the OF around.
232

Der Kaiser,

20/07/2008 23:13:02
I don't mind the Old Firm asking for a cut of the ticket money. I reckon Hearts should accept their proposal proved we put up the ticket prices and further cut their allocation at Tynie. Any other SPL clubs who can financially afford make a similar decision should follow suit.
What's the worst that can happen? A boycott of away fans at Ibrox and Celtic Park? It's a meagre allocation from the Old Firm anyway. I've only ever been to Ibrox once (not Celtic Park) and can honestly say, hand on heart that it was not a pleasant experience. The security staff seemed to have been instructed to come rushing down the steps and bawl at you when you lifted your bum out the seat or shouted the odd swear word while only yards away Rangers fans jumped around like idiots flinging wave after wave of insults with their silly wee salutes. I doubt I'd ever go back, but I'm getting sidetracked here with another debate.
The Old Firm already procure some of the best of Scottish talent at knock down prices by waving blank cheques in front of players with the promise of wages 3 or 4 times what they are already on. Is the financial burden of paying these players inflated wages to be sustained by non-old firm clubs so their fans can watch their best players strut about in blue or green hooped tops?
On your bike old firm!

p.s. Has this tactic been adopted by any other clubs in Europe?
233

Alba Abú,

Edinburgh 29/08/2008 21:30:53
Why do you think they are called the "old firm" This name was given to Celtic and Rangers a century ago by the Scottish press.......Reason.....Yea! you got it! When it comes to making a few extra pounds Both of these clubs close ranks and support one another. All this talk of serious rivalry is in the minds of the punters. Celtic and Rangers play the Green and the Orange cards to make big money.If there is a quick buck to be made,they will quickly throw the cards away and put their heads together. Thus the name "the old firm" Do not be fooled in to thinking that either of these teams are defenders of this tradition or that tradition,they are not.They are gold diggers,plain and simple.Dermot Desmond the Irish director of Celtic is reputed to be worth....wait for it......4 Billion Pounds.......... Whilst Mr. Murray is closing in on him.

 

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