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Fatal error sends Europe to their worst defeat since '81

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Published Date: 22 September 2008
ON A final day of tense, emotional and exhilarating golf at Valhalla, the United States deservedly won the Ryder Cup 16.5-11.5 for the first time since 1999 yesterday.
Watch a slideshow of pictures of the final day's play from Valhalla

Although Europe went into the 37th contest as odds-on favourites, Nick Faldo turned out to be a stubborn, erratic captain whose attention to detail from the sidelines was a pale shadow of the compulsive champion who left no stone unturned as a player.

Winning the Ryder Cup always involves the roll of dice and the respective captains, Faldo and Paul Azinger, gambled on different approaches in yesterday's singles. The Americans packed the top of the order of with their best players in a bid to acquire the five and a half points needed for victory. This was the approach adopted by winning captains such as Sam Torrance and Ben Crenshaw in past matches and the quest for US momentum was reflected in a haul of five and half points from the first eight ties.

Europe, on the other hand, were optimistically relying on the match not being decided until the last four ties, where Graeme McDowell, Ian Poulter, their top scorer with four points, Lee Westwood and Padraig Harrington, their most experienced champions, were positioned at the bottom of the order. Of all Faldo's dubious decisions in Kentucky, this risky gambit was the most costly of all.

"We needed to drag them one more game into the guys at the back of the field, but we missed out by one," countered Faldo. "That was a tough one. Everyone did their bit, we were just separated by a fraction. I feel for everyone who has come and made such an effort. I doubt whether I would do it (the captaincy] again, it was probably a one time shot."

As with much else that happened at Valhalla, Faldo's logic was suspect. Harrington and Westwood both struggled and the margin of defeat was Europe's poorest result in the match since being slaughtered at Walton Heath in 1981.

True, there was a period during the middle of the afternoon when Faldo's ploy looked like it could come off if everything went in Europe's favour. In the end, though, it was a massive error not to elevate McDowell, Poulter, Westwood and Harrington into the middle of the order. By the time Europe's strong tail came into play, it was simply too little, too late.

Questions of leadership apart, the main reason the USA won was because they played steadier golf, holed more putts and unearthed fresh characters such as Anthony Kim and Boo Weekley who had no experience of playing on losing teams.

Azinger laid out his side in three banks of four, and it was the middle quartet of Perry, Weekley, Holmes and Furyk, a blend of local men and experienced competitors, who tilted this match in America's favour. "The guys from Kentucky did really well and our 13th man, the crowd, did us proud," said the US captain. "They energised our boys and we played with heart and strength. This team really deserved it."

Fortuitously, the honour of earning the winning point fell to the former US Open champion, Jim Furyk, who had previously played for his country on four losing teams. Two up with two play, Furyk's match-winning putt on the 17th green against Miguel Angel Jimenez was conceded to ensure the party started early.

Home advantage greatly favoured Azinger's men and the USA responded with plenty of hootin', hollerin' and high fives. But this was no Brookline. The atmosphere in Kentucky was exactly what both sides were hoping for: as hushed as a cathedral when the players were over the ball yet as loud as a football stadium after the shots were struck.

The first sentence of the last chapter at the Ryder Cup usually influences what follows, and Kim claimed the first point of the final day by the stunning margin of 5&4 against Garcia, who putted atrociously and failed to win for the first time since his debut in 1999.

The pain ended for the Spaniard on the short 14th and Kim put him out of his misery. Only the youngster didn't realise he'd won and left the green, heading for the next tee, before learning he was victorious. "I thought I had one more to go," he said with a smile. "I can't imagine a better day on a golf course than this."

Having missed a short putt for par on the first hole against Paul Casey, Hunter Mahan took advantage of the Englishman's bogey on the second to level the tie. He followed up with another 3 on the fourth to edge in front. One of captain Faldo's picks, Casey fell two behind after running up another bogey on the fifth before fighting back with birdies on the seventh and ninth.

This was a vital 'swing' match where Mahan regained the lead on the 13th before both players hit their tee shots on the short 14th to a couple of feet and halved the hole in conceded 2s. In a rare show of sporting camaraderie between the teams, Casey and Mahan exchanged high-fives.

A birdie on the 16th earned parity for Casey before Mahan holed in spectacular fashion from 40 feet on the 17th to make a critical move and celebrate extravagantly. If he thought the match was won, he was wrong.

The drama increased on the last when Mahan pushed his tee shot towards the creek and took a penalty drop. His third shot found a greenside bunker. Casey found the green with a brilliant iron shot and made a two putt birdie to halve the match.

Robert Karlsson was the first European to get his nose in front when he made birdie on the fourth against Justin Leonard and increased his lead with a 20 footer on the sixth. More successes on the ninth and tenth meant the Swede was four up after 11 holes. The American's putter wasn't as dependable as usual and Karlsson, who carried on where he left off in Saturday's fourballs, came through by 5&3 to lift Europe's spirits.

Karlsson's countryman, Henrik Stenson, meantime, was faring less well against Perry, the veteran who holed putt after putt over the opening stretch to gain a three-hole advantage which was duly translated into a 3&2 triumph for the local hero.

Phil Mickelson and Justin Rose, meantime, couldn't be separated over the first five holes as the pair traded quality shots. The Englishman sneaked in front on the sixth after the left-hander's 15 footer for birdie horseshoed out. Rose also took advantage of Mickelson's fluffed chip on the seventh and was three up when the left-hander's second at the tenth finished short and right. Although the world No 2 rallied, Rose holed a long putt on the 16th to clinch his point by 4&2. "Phil was a huge scalp," he said. "Defeat is hard to take. I thought the golf course was very suited to the home team."

The most improbable start to any of the ties – indeed, it would be hard to think of a similar moment since the Ryder Cup began in 1927 – came when Boo Weekley mounted his driver and pretend to ride a horse. It was the kind of play-acting you would expect from a five-year-old and drew appreciative roars of "Boo, Boo" from the home gallery.

The 'Boo' fan club was briefly silenced when Oliver Wilson made a tidy birdie on the second. The big man, though, levelled on the third and also won the fifth. Six under par for the opening eight holes, Boo produced a storming display to win 4&2.

Soren Hansen started his singles without his Scottish caddie, John 'Scotchy' Graham, who had to drop out because of a back injury. Fortunately, Garcia had brought two caddies to Louisville and Billy Foster stepped in to shoulder the Dane's bag. Hansen, though, fell victim to the Kentucky factor and was defeated 2&1 by J B Holmes.

Once Furyk dispatched Jimenez, the contest was over and the Ryder Cup was back in American hands.

Timeline of a day that saw hosts come out on top

1203 – Amid an electric atmosphere, Sergio Garcia gets the singles under way with a thumping drive down the first as Europe attempt to repeat their comeback from 9-7 down at Oak Hill in 1995.

1404– By the time Padraig Harrington tees off in the final match, the Americans are ahead in eight of the other 11.

1500– Better news for Europe with suddenly both sides ahead in four matches each and the remaining four level, although Garcia is five down with five to play and heading for a heavy defeat.

1510– Anthony Kim seals a 5&4 victory over Garcia and is so charged up he fails to realise the match is over and heads towards the 15th tee. The USA lead 10-7.

1555– Robert Karlsson cruises to a 5&3 victory over Justin Leonard to get Europe's first point of the day and reduce the gap to 10-8.

1604– Hunter Mahan holes a massive putt for birdie on the 17th to go one up on Paul Casey in the crucial second match, evoking memories of Leonard's sensational putt on the 17th at Brookline in 1999.

1615– Justin Rose birdies the 16th to seal a 3&2 victory over Phil Mickelson and make the score 10-9.

1622– Casey birdies the 18th after Mahan drives into the water to claim half a point.

1625– Kenny Perry completes a 3&2 victory over the dogged Henrik Stenson to put the home side two clear and within three points of victory.

1645– Boo Weekley is eight under par in beating Oliver Wilson 4&2 to make the score 12½-9½.

1706– JB Holmes produces a stunning birdie-birdie finish to beat Soren Hansen 2&1 and edge the United States another step nearer to victory, with Jim Furyk two up with two to play against Miguel Angel Jimenez in the match behind.

1718– Jimenez cannot find a birdie on the 17th and Furyk's 2&1 victory seals America's first Ryder Cup victory since 1999.

FACT BOX

SINGLES MATCHES (USA first)

Anthony Kim bt Sergio Garcia 5 & 4

Justin Leonard lost to Robert Karlsson 5 & 3

Phil Mickelson lost to Justin Rose 3 & 2

Hunter Mahan halved with Paul Casey

Kenny Perry bt Henrik Stenson 3 & 2

Boo Weekley bt Oliver Wilson 4 & 2

J B Holmes bt Soren Hansen 2 & 1

Jim Furyk bt Miguel Angel Jimenez 2 & 1

Steve Stricker lost to Ian Poulter 3 & 2

Stewart Cink lost to Graeme McDowell 2 & 1

Ben Curtis bt Lee Westwood 2 & 1

Chad Campbell bt Padraig Harrington 2 & 1

Singles score: USA 7, Europe 4

FINAL SCORE: USA 16, Europe 11

The full article contains 1837 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 22 September 2008 9:34 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Ryder Cup , Sport Slideshows
 
1

Teofilio Cubillas,

22/09/2008 00:27:35
Yep, well played the USA, deserved winners. Nice to see the crowds behaving themselves as well. No idiotic desert storm caps or drunken 'fans' abusing the players. Maybe the fact that Americans and (some)Europeans are fighting in and being killed in real wars puts the past encounters into their proper perspective.
2

Jon Bon Jovi,

Dublin 22/09/2008 04:23:55

was it not 16.5 to 11.5????

if so more shoddy hootsman so-called journolism...
3

TommyKaye,

UK 22/09/2008 06:30:29
Can't blame the Scots players eh
4

Forager,

Glasgow 22/09/2008 08:17:02
How could Europe lose - they had better players, fewer rookies, and a winning mentality going into the event.
The faces of some players - Westwood and Harrington in particular at the closing ceremony told it's own story.

Europe had a completely inept captain and that made the difference. Faldo looked like he was relying on guidance from D J Spoony to get through the day. I'm looking forward to all the stories coming out in the next few weeks.

That's it Europe - you gave him his turn and he let you down, as (north of the border)we all suspected - now we can get back to our winning ways for 2010
5

Johnny Jambo,

22/09/2008 08:21:33
"Fatal Errors" caused the defeat.

I don't like Nick Faldo but whatever he did yesterday they would have found a way to blame him, if he put the big guns out first and the back end had lost then it would have been wrong or if he mixed them all up throughout the 12 again he would have been wrong.

Why can't the press just accept that on the day the best team won, at the end of the day the golf was fantastic and even Oli Wilson who lost my a mile was better than par for his round showing how well his opponent played.

Nick Faldo will be pilloried for this but the players did their best and on the day it was not god enough.

Still doesn't change my opinion of Nick Faldo though.
6

Black Five,

edinburgh 22/09/2008 08:26:47
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but yes Faldo did make a gamble that failed.You could say his last two did not win anyhow but who`s to say if the right circumstances prevailed they might have done so.We`ll never know but the one thing Faldo did clearly gamble on was Casey and Garcia.Both were having a poor week.In the case of Garcia he looks a pale shadow of the man in previous Ryder Cups.It would appear he has now been fataly damaged by the defeats to Harrrington in two majors.That horrible wedge shot on Friday was a carbon copy of the one which went in the water at the 16th in the P G A .His puttting now seems gone completely .As for Casey another who can`t putt.He had chances to see off Mahan before the jammy putt Mahan holed at 17.So puting them out first was a big gamble.If he`d went for the clearly in form players of Poulter ,Rose and McDowell we could have squared the points total up.He didn`t and that`s that.
We can`t win them all but one lesson I`d like to think the P G A have learned is that they should allow the Captain 4 picks.He has to mould the team to his liking and to strangle him with only 2 picks is wrong.Jacklin got 3 picks.Gallacher for some reason changed it and we`ve been stuck with it ever since.Monty advocated 12 picks in the past but 4 picks is a must.Will they change ?I`d say it`s a must to do so.
7

Richard Taylor,

Aberdeen 22/09/2008 08:32:54
I'd like to thank Faldo from the heart of my bottom.
8

Cathcart Boy,

London 22/09/2008 08:37:19
So Faldo thinks he won't do the Captain thing again - in his view it was a one-off shot. That's great news for everyone outside the USA. Arrogant, autocratic, tactically inept, poor motivator - I'd be surprised if he were even allowed to carry the hamper. His mistakes included failure to take Darren Clarke along for at least his expoerience; for guaranteeing a place to Poulter without Poulter having to have made one last effort to qualify (for its impact on team morale); for making a hash of the opening day after naively disclosing his thoughts on pairings; and believing that a strong tail was the answer when so far behind on Singles Sunday.
Nick - you are the weakest link. Goodbye
9

Johnny Jambo,

22/09/2008 08:39:52
#6 I agree regarding the picks, the top players in the world and european groups are sometimes played out by the time it comes to the Ryder Cup, Harington is a prime example.

Poulter's selection was completely vindicated, not sure about Casey's though, but although we will never know, I think Darren Clarke may have made a difference and Monty's experience would have been invaluable.

But the Yanks played out of their skins, the first two players set the tone for the day with their approaches to the first.
10

Dr Lloyd Berkshire-Hunt,

22/09/2008 08:43:01
Two words - Nick Daldo.

Prickly, self centred - how can he lead a team?
11

Johnny Jambo,

22/09/2008 08:47:24
#8 you can't have a pop at Faldo for picking Poulter, he proved his worth. For many other things but not that.
12

PJ Walker,

East Lothian 22/09/2008 09:04:03
Faldo was fine as a captain. He wasn't the one hitting the poor shots and missing vital putts
He deserves credit for (controversially) choosing Poulter, who single-handedly scored more points than Harrington, Hansen, Garcia, Casey and Jiminez collectively.
Oh, and the USA team played out of their skns and holed miles of putts
Get off Nick's back, please
13

Johnny Jambo,

22/09/2008 09:04:25
Nick Faldo in his pre match interview when asked a particular question about the Singles selection after a stuttering and stammering he said "help me here"

Then he said he put his "big players" in the last pairings hopeing that the players at the first pairing could maybe hold things up till the end.

Real motivating statements for the guys who teed off first.

And the guys at the rear did not perform at all in any case.
14

McMillar,

Fife 22/09/2008 09:09:54
Gutted. Well done to the US guys and they actually looked like a team for the first time and played very well. That is probably down to Tiger being absent and there being a common enemy in Faldo. Some of the tactics were ‘unique’ but hard to experiment at this stage. It is a win or bust tournament. He may be a bit of a tw1t with the press but he is our tw1t. I didn’t agree with the Poulter pick but he has been a star – full credit!! Next time will be different…..the lessons are clear.
15

Johnny Jambo,

22/09/2008 09:09:57
#12 - Yes I agree that Poulter was a revelation, and yes the US guys did play out of their skin and you cant blame Nick for that, however it looked to me that in the singles the supposed "Big Players" lacked motivation, I never saw a smile from Harrington, Westwood, Jimenez and in particular Garcia and you can blame Nick for not getting them motivated, and he stayed at the first tee too long, Garcia and Casey needed a boost after about 6 or 7 holes and no one was their to help, that was Faldo's job.
16

The Strategist,

22/09/2008 09:16:54
SCOT WINS SEAT CUPRA CUP...

Knowing that the Scotsman won't bother to report this I feel it my duty to inform readers that Jonathan Adams from Glenrothes won the Seat Cupra Cup yesterday at Brands Hatch.
17

Cockerel,

Aberdeen 22/09/2008 09:37:22
Take a look at the Ryder Cup website where they show the individual points scores for all players. The "star" European players who everyone expected to shine! Harrington 0.5 points out of a possible 4. Garcia 1 from 4. Westwood 1 from 4.Jimenez 0.5 from 3.

Faldo's two choices; Poulter 4 from 5, yes more than the top 4 could manage between them. Casey 1 from 3. So, Faldo's two picks scored 5 points. If the other 10 players; 5 sets of 2... had done anywhere near as well, Europe would have walked it.

It was interesting to hear all the comments on the radio yesterday talking about how Faldo had left the top players till last. Yes, the top players, such as Harrington and Westwood who contributed very little. Garcia, another superstar went first, and did as well as he had the rest of the tournament.

Credit should go to the USA for playing so well. Faldo was always going to get the blame.

It is the players who failed.
18

steveenglandandGB,

22/09/2008 09:38:48
Well Faldo maybe made some errors but if we are blaming people why aren't we blaming Harrington, Garcia and Westwood? Harrington ASKED to go out last because he seems to think he is "amazing under pressure". Well he may have been individually but what about bottled shots in the pairs on Friday? Faldo may not be a team man, but Harrington with a grand total of ONE POINT in two Ryder Cups is hardly Mr Team either.

And Westwood, my compatriot, behaved like a sulky brat after Faldo left him out. Pathetic behaviour and a poor performance from him.

Has it occurred to anyone on this thread that Faldo actually LOST faith in both these two due to their poor performances so put them LAST deliberately thinking that they would lose anyway!

Unlikely but not impossible.

Yes Poulter justified his pick totally, 4/5 although doubtless many will say "well Clarke would have got 5/5 and Monty would have got 6/5!!!"

Much Faldo needs to take some blame but it is frankly ludicrous not to attach some blame to the players. If Harrington was English and not Irish, he would be pillorised in the Celtic media!

I don't think that Woosnam was actually any better captain than Faldo, think he was more of a lucky captain.

I would not pick either of them for the Ryder Cup next time.
19

what a chancer,

up one again 22/09/2008 09:44:16
the americans played well,we were beaten by a great team effort on three days.
20

Farmernot,

22/09/2008 09:44:26
USA hit the shots and holed the putts..........simply a better team over the 3 days....Well done
21

AJ Fife,

22/09/2008 09:48:17
Sandy Lyle would've been a better bet! Faldo was never a team man as David Gilford could testify to. The arrogant Faldo was found out to be wanting, but's it's no surprise.
22

Johnny Jambo,

22/09/2008 09:52:18
#18 - wow where did that criticsim of Woosie come from, his team won the Ryder Cup and like it or not the Captain will always bear the brunt of the flak when the team lose.

You are obvioulsy very bitter that it is not an All English Ryder Cup team. Yes I know you did mention Westwood in your post, but lets be honest whether Harrington asked to play last or not, it is not really his decision, the captain should pick what he thinks is best for the team and obviously thought that we might still be in it when it came to the last 3 or four, how wrong can you be.

Get the points on the board then hang on is always going to be better that having a bigger margin to make up which is exactly what happened.

I also know that had Faldo gone any ohter way he would have been piloried also so he was never going to get good press unless we won the Ryder Cup, and even then it would have not been as good as previous Ryder Cups so just accept it.

Faldo has been his own worst enemy over the years.
23

steveenglandandGB,

22/09/2008 10:01:54
johnnyjambo what a silly juvenile post of yours. How big a chip on your shoulder do you have lol? All english Ryder cup? I think the problem for you is that there were no Scots and you had a problem supporting a team with the 'nasty english' as captain and players in.


What a silly man you are.
24

steveenglandandGB,

22/09/2008 10:05:09
Now, responding to the adults of the group, yes I agree Sandy Lyle would have been better captain than Faldo and I would rather him that Woosnam next time. I can't actually believe that Faldo actually thought he may be asked again lol. Agreed, that is arrogance.

Montgomerie himself will make an amazing captain. If only he gave up the idea of playing again. I still am convinced Faldo did the right thing in not playing him. Clarke? Well like i said on this board before Cup started, I would have taken Clarke instead of Casey.

Maybe the Ryder Cup captaincy beckons for me then?

25

Black Five,

edinburgh 22/09/2008 10:07:29
If you checked my posting testerday you would see my comments on Harrington.I compared him to the same as Tiger Woods a loner and a non socialiser.One thing also as Johnny pointed out where was our leader when Garcia was needing a hand out in his hour of need.Lack of assistants was one of his mistakes.As I have already pointed out Azinger won it with his 4 picks.Future captains have got to get this rule of 2 picks changed.A better tactition won the day.
26

Pat the Hat,

Baile atha Cliath 22/09/2008 10:23:59
The cup was all but lost before Harrington and Westwood even set out on their rounds. With Europe behind by two before the singles started, it was imperative to put the strongest players out first to try to take the lead and put pressure on the Americans. They were under no pressure all day.

Having said that, I felt sorry for Faldo – he is the quintessential loner and there was never a chance he would make a good captain. He looked very exposed out there. He should have swallowed his pride and asked Clarke or Monty or both along to support the team. The younger players would have responded mightily to both.

Harrington looked out on his feet. He needs to take a long holiday and prepare for next season. Garcia is a shadow of the player he can be. Poulter was terrific and totally justified his selection. And McDowell was a revelation.

But let's not kid ourselves – the Americans were terrific – they played some murderous golf. Well played, U.S.


27

canberrabear,

22/09/2008 10:24:22
Surely the order in which they play is irrelevant.
They are professionals who go out week in, week out and perform so regardless of the pairings we should have had enough to win it. The damage was done on day one and I don't think we can blame Faldo for the loss. too many"big guns" didn't fire and that can hardly be attributed to him.
28

steveenglandandGB,

22/09/2008 10:26:27
blackfive, totally agree about lack of assistants. This is where Faldo's arrogance lets him down. Has to be different for sake of it.

I guess what I am tryin to do is just share the blame out. Faldo is arrogant, self centered, not a great captain etc. But others must take some blame as well. who was to know Garcia would play so badly and Harrington be completely shattered and unable to lift himself?

There also seem to be a lot of IFs. Do people really think that if Harrington had gone out earlier (against his wishes incidentally) that he would definitely have won? He has been the worst player on either side this week!

The Americans played the best they have over a number of years and although Faldo's bad captaincy has been shown up, I think one or two other European captains have got away with poor decisions in the past because the Americans have turned up as 12 individuals, not a team as they did this time.

Let's hammer Faldo, but let's not pretend that all the captains who have won are automatically brilliant.

Sandy Lyle for 2010 gets my vote. If not him, then who?
29

Johnny Jambo,

22/09/2008 10:43:26
#23 I don't think this was juvenile post you are the one who did all the criticising and with the exception of Westwood your criticisms were all directed at non English players within the team

I had no issue with Faldo as captain, I had no issue with his ommissions of Monty, who by his own admissions did not deserve a place on form.

We were beaten by the better team on the day and I think I said this before that nop0 matter what Faldo had done if it did not work then he would be criticised.
30

steveenglandandGB,

22/09/2008 11:34:20
johnny, reread my posts, i have been very critical of Faldo! And also Westwood. That's two Englishmen. I should aim some criticism at Casey to be fair as he didn't play well either.

But as you are clearly offended I haven't criticised the others, here goes:

Rose was rubbish, he should have beaten the World number two by more than 3 holes. He is a disgrace to Europe.

Wilson? Awful! Only won half his matches and that is appalling for a rookie. Hang him.

Poulter? 4 out of 5. AWFUL. Proved what a bad pick he was. Should have won five out of five. He should never be allowed back in Europe again.

Does that satisfy you now?
I'll be posting another one to the adults here about grown up debate later, this one is for you Johnny.

31

steveenglandandGB,

22/09/2008 11:37:21
The reality is that this time the Americans were better but I just don't like the attitude of some of the European players.

Harrington - loner who couldn't even click with his fellow Irishman

Westwood- just fat boy who will never make it

Casey- par performance but I think the classic nearly man, and doesn't have the team ethos as much as Clarke

Garcia- played so badly one wonders whether Faldo should have been braver and rested him for both matches on the Friday

Incidentally we have neglected to mention what a great performance Karlsson put up in the singles! Brilliant stuff, shame it was in vain.
32

DGSEVILLE2,

Northants 22/09/2008 11:44:01
The cup was lost on the first day when our players let the USA run away with things, remember this was on their course, set up to suit them, with their supporters and we were 3 down after the first day! There was also the small matter that most of them simply played better than the opposition. Azinger could even move the pins to where he wanted. Faldo maybe took a gamble or two but it was his experienced players in particular Garcia who were simply not up for it this time.

Look Faldo has always been arrogant but some would say he has a right to be given he has been the best British golfer since Jacklin in the 1970's. The players lost this and the US were due a win simple as that.

33

The Federalist (the poster formerly know as NAUON),

22/09/2008 11:52:41
The most ridiculous sight of the day was Faldo handing out drinks to the Europe fans on the first tee when he should have been calming down Sergio Garcia who clearly had let Kim get under his skin.

Yes there were problems with key players underperforming but the situation is not aided by a captain who does not lead from the front. In contrast, Azinger had his men (and teh fans) totally pumped up.

Europe were out-fought, out-thought and out-played.
34

steveenglandandGB,

22/09/2008 11:57:44
Does anyone else actually think it is a good thing for the competition that the USA won?

Don't get me wrong I was willing Europe all the way but if we had won it four times in a row it starts to potentially devalue it or Americans can use the excuse "it doesn't mean much".

I know it's a bit ridiculous to say that, and people could say same about Wimbledon, French Open, etc when people have won it few times in a row, but I just feel the USA needed to win this one.

Still couldn't support them though.

But it does add more excitement next time though, knowing that we have to win it back!
35

JT,

22/09/2008 12:05:22
#1 what are you talking about, I stopped watching it on sat as the crowd were getting on my nerves. All the whooping and "Boo -ing" was out of order. Fair play to the US team they played some outstanding golf and deserved the win, however once again the majority of the home crowd behaved like yobs and wouldnt know what etiquette was if it came up and smacked them across the face! lets hope none of them make it over to Celtic Manor in two years time. Mind you Kim walking in Poulter's line of sight was naughty someone should remind him about the etiquette of the game also.
36

joppa jock,

Huntingdon 22/09/2008 12:07:17
#1 Sorry, but your comments about how well behaved the crowd were and no abuse to the players is contrary to what Lee Westwood said. He was furious at the verbal abuse he received, particularly some nasty stuff yelled at about his mother. Golfing events in the USA appear to attract many non-golfers who have no idea how to behave on a golf course, or anywhere else for that matter.
37

Johnny Jambo,

22/09/2008 12:26:33
#30 now who is making juvenile posts.

I am not offended in the slightest, I don't think you read the posts properly, I am agreeing with you in some cases and disagreeing in others, yes the players need to take their share of the blame, and also the captain, but sometimes when you have a poor captain who fails to motivate his players these are the kind of performances you get.

Incidentally, you keep saying that Harrington wanted to play last, do we know that for sure??? and thats all well and good but surely if the Captain says no and asks him to play first then he should be man enough to accept that and give his best.
38

Johnny Jambo,

22/09/2008 12:32:27
Incidentally SteveenglandGB - I never wanted you to criticise anybody, Oli Wilson was 4 under par at the turn and still 3 down that shows how good his opponent played.

Kim was 3 under after 4 holes against Garcia, and one of the statistics mentioned during the day was that in the early stages of the day 11 holes were halfed in birdies, so it was great golf, so regardless how well we played the Yanks played better.
39

Johnny Jambo,

22/09/2008 12:36:06
#35 the crowd played a good part in the proceedings and this was noted by some of the European team, Rose made a comment about it being a great atmosphere out there and something they could not get every week as did Poulter and they likened it to Premier League football matches.

40

steveenglandandGB,

22/09/2008 12:46:16
I agree, I think the crowds seemed mostly good. I wasn't there so can't guarantee it but seems like only Whinger Westwood has a problem with it.

We can all debate but I guess the reality is simply this, the US played much better than the previous 3 Ryder Cups. I am sure if some Statto works out their total under par score for the three days it would be much better than for ages.

In a team of 12 players in any sport invariably a few will be off form, that is the nature of sport and although we can criticise individuals (as I have!) the reality is that some players did badly when we won too.

Harrington got same number of points this time as last but this time there was effectively a 14 point swing towards the US. last time we won by 9 this time they did by 5.

41

SouthSideHibs,

22/09/2008 13:11:23
I always thought Faldo was a chump, but this weekend just confirmed it.

He is NOT a "team-man" - nor a popular figure on or off the course. Awarding him the Captaincy was in recognition of his superb record (as a Player!) in the Cup, but asking him to do this in the States was Mission Impossible.

Azinger was refusing to say how he motivated the team on Sky last night, my bet would be he used Faldo as the 'anti-figure'...

Roll on Celtic Manor and someone more capable.
42

Delboy29,

22/09/2008 13:13:13
How can you criticise Faldo for not bolstering the top/middle order with Westwood & Harrington when they lost their matches?
43

frisnit,

Dundee 22/09/2008 14:35:06
It was a closer Ryder Cup than the score suggested, but it wasn't Faldo's final day order that broke it for Europe. In the first 2 days, the Europeans were unlucky in a few games and should really have been tied or slightly ahead. In the final day, the Americans simply had more players playing better and sunk the important putts, and a few would have won regardless of their Euro opponent! With a few minor twists though, it was looking on, but unfortunately Harrington would never have made it anyway (obviously tired as did Mickelson).

I think the score is unfortunate as it looks much wider than it really was, but it was a great performance by both teams and really exciting to watch, with some amazing golf - and the better team did win! And Poulter showed that Faldo can make the right choice, something he was derided for from almost all quarters but was clearly the best Euro player there.
44

CPWilliam,

22/09/2008 14:38:49
I'm no Faldo lover but I think he made a reasonable go of it. If we are being honest most of us would have picked Clarke but it would likely have been at the expense of Poulter and not Casey. Poulter was an inspired choice by Faldo and has the mentality for Ryder Cup Matches which in my opinion casey does not.
Faldo certainly does himself no favours with his attitude towards the press but he can't be blamed for the fact that our best did not perform as well as America's best on the days.
Agree with Sandy Lyle for next captain but would also accept either Bernard Langer or Paul McGinley?
45

scot in Dublin,

22/09/2008 14:39:55
I think the fact that faldo picked casey and poulter sealed our fate b4 the cup began. he lost the emotions of the european supporters by not picking clarke or monty. Faldo unsurprisingly failed to recognise that team events require team players of which casey or clarke could have brought into the side. It was always going to be a tough challenge for us, personally i have lost interest in the ryder cup now after watching years and years of American fist pumping jumping around greens. It's all over blown these days, it should be about a celebration of golf and less emphasis on winning and losing.
46

steveenglandandGB,

22/09/2008 17:08:41
scot, Casey wasn't a great decision but you can't criticise Poulter's inclusion with justification. Doubt Clarke or Monty would have bettered 4 points and at some point we need to move on from relying on Monty.

I have said this before that if we are totally ignoring form and just picking on past performances then why don't the USA continue to pick Arnold Palmer?

There comes a time to end and I think Monty's time is up as a player. But believe me he would be my number one choice for captain! What a captain inspirational he would be, been there, done it and has totaly credibility.

Faldo has lost more Ryder Cup matches than anyone else (although he has played most too), so his record is not actually that good!

Clarke, as I said before, should have been included. He adds something to the team, but frankly much as I agree that Casey was no relevation he wasn't that bad, and if you had to drop someone it would be Westwood, Garica or Harrington!

Still time for Clarke next time round.

Someone mentioned Paul Mcginley as captain, but surely the guy wants to play in the next one doesn't he?
47

steveenglandandGB,

22/09/2008 17:13:22
johnny, ok truce called between us :)
i do actually agree with you that Faldo should have overruled Harrington if he believed necessary. Faldo said Harrington wanted to be last in order as Harrington wanted the pressure etc.

I think glory has slightly gone to Harrington's head, he keeps saying how amazing he is on the 72nd hole but he bottled the first Open, the only reason he won was that Mr Bottler himself, Garcia bottled it even more.

The irony is I actually see some of Faldo in Harrington, great player, not great leader. Anyone agree?
48

Media 1,

cape town 22/09/2008 20:02:32
It is a myth that the Ryder Cup captain plays a part in the competition, he doesnt!
The captain is what you could call "A part of tradition" but that is all he is.

Faldo's only input is to chose his two wild cards. Poulter proved to be a sensational choice and Casey did not loose his singles match on the last day.

Europe lost because the players were poor. Garcia should not have lost to Kim, to lose the way he did was proof of how poor he actually was. Harrington should not have lost to Campbell, he is a triple major winner and should know better.
Stenson lost to a 48 yr old and Westwood had Curtis beaten on a few ocassions.

Well done America - you win some you lose some.
49

Pilrig,

Livingston 22/09/2008 23:02:30
Faldo got his tactics wrong for the final day, it aint rocket science to realise the top-notch golfers should play in the first pairings. Get the points in early and let the yanks do the worrying.
50

steveenglandandGB,

23/09/2008 19:14:34
pilrig, you mean send out the out of form Harrington and Westwood first to gift the USA a four point lead?

 

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