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Sacked Hay 'won't return to rugby'



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Published Date: 03 December 2008
By David Kelso and Gareth Black
JIM Hay says he is "finished with rugby" after being sacked as head coach by troubled Hawick.
The former Scotland hooker was told on Monday night that his services were no longer required yesterday after the 12-time champions dropped to the bottom of Premiership Division 1 at the weekend. The 29-0 defeat by league leaders Ayr at Millbrae compounded fears that Scotland's most successful club – along with Heriot's, one of only two never to have been relegated – could fall out of the top flight for the first time in their proud history.

The writing has been on the wall for some weeks as the Greens' season has lurched from one setback to the next. As well as only two victories and one draw in their first 13 games, Hay was handed a three-month touchline ban by the club following a post-match altercation with a referee. There has also been reports that relations had become strained between Hay and chairman Donald McLeod.

Hay said last night: "To be honest, I am relieved. Now I can have a stress-free Christmas.

"This season has been unbearable and I do not think that people off the field had the faith of those on it. Hawick rugby has been my life for the best part of 30 years, as a player, captain and a coach.

"I love the club and I have given everything to it. Maybe I should have stood down at the end of last season, but you know how it is – you want to go on.

"I do not have an issue with Hawick Rugby Club, it has been my life. I was told of my fate officially when the officials marched into my office, but I had already been given the heads-up with phone calls and a text."

Hay, who won one full cap in 1995 and has also coached rivals Gala and Scotland Under-18s, added: "I want to thank the players for their support and I do hope they can turn things round. I would hate to see them relegated.

"Ultimately, as in all sports, the coach takes the blame and I will take it on the chin. I know I gave it my best shot – but I won't go back to rugby."

A statement from Hawick RFC issued yesterday afternoon said: "The management committee decided at a meeting last night (Monday] to relieve Jim Hay of his position as head coach of the club.

"The decision was taken following a full debate about the club's position in Premier One of the Scottish Hydro Electric League.

"There will be no further comment from Hawick Rugby Football Club."

It is a long time since Hawick's heyday in the 1970s and early 80s when they romped to ten league titles in the first 14 years of the official national championship (which began in 1973-74) and regularly played in front of several thousand at Mansfield Park.

However, as recently as the turn of the century the Greens, who have produced a record 58 internationalists for the national team, were once again a dominant force in Scottish rugby under the stewardship of former player Ian Barnes, winning the treble of league, cup and Border League in 2001.

The economic decline of the Borders in general and the town of Hawick has been mirrored in rugby circles. The club estimates that 28 Hawick-produced players have left in the last 18 months alone, either to the SRU academy system or to other Scottish clubs.

It is understood current assistant coaches Stephen Cranston and Derek Armstrong will take over until the end of the season, starting with the home match against West of Scotland on Saturday. The pressure will now shift to them to ensure this current Hawick side does not suffer the ignominy of becoming the first in the Robbie Dye's illustrious history to fall away from the top table of Scottish club rugby.

The full article contains 663 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 03 December 2008 1:51 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
 
1

The Doc5,

03/12/2008 09:22:52
"Ultimately, as in all sports, the coach takes the blame and I will take it on the chin."

Pity this doesn't seem to apply to Mr Hadden.
2

Scottee,

hawick among the hills 03/12/2008 12:59:18
Personally, i'd like to thank Jim for his work and dedication that he has given to Hawick over the years.

3

Rosbrog,

Ireland 03/12/2008 15:50:12
I know it appears biased but the fate of Hawick and other Border clubs has been sealed by the SRU, who surely in any other profession would be sacked themselves i.e. McKee, the fiasco with the Border Reivers. Selkirk are doing well with a team that hasn’t been affected by the academy system and the remaining pro teams at the minute but of course that will soon change. I think I am right in saying that when the pro system came into operation their were crowds of 4-5000 at mansefield, poynder park and the greenyards for the borders games. The SRU designate when the teams will be folded with no criteria for success (i.e. the success of the borders and Caledonia versus that of Edinburgh and Glasgow), the pro teams have there pick of the players, based in Edinburgh hand Glasgow, encouraging players to move away. In Ireland players are reared through their clubs and are returned to those clubs on the odd occasion, if you rear the player surely you should get the benefit of them when they are pro. I don’t get this draft system whereby a player who plays for Melrose can be allocated to hawick or vice versa, its farcical. The death of Scottish rugby, coinciding with the death of borders rugby, seven years ago there were seven border teams in the top division, now three, last year two. Mr McKee you’
4

Rosbrog,

03/12/2008 15:52:13
McKee you are culpable in the state of the game!
My sympathies are with Jim Hay attempting to work in that climate. Who will Hawick bring in now.
5

J.A.,

03/12/2008 17:15:42
I agree!!

When you add the theft of the International 7’s from Melrose and the fact that the SRU appear to have dismissed the possibility of even holding an ‘A’ game down in the Borders, it is obvious that they want Border rugby to disappear
6

Middlemarch,

Gala 03/12/2008 17:17:39
#3 i agree with you.

Us Borderers can be uncoth and a pain in the butt. We can argue like stuff amongst ourselves. But truely in % terms there cannot be another part of the country that cares so much for the game.

And please lets not have ny of the that guff about attendance numbers for the last season of the Reivers. The aggregate numbers were not good but they were slightly higher than those at Glasgow. And sure commercially a large city is a better bet than a few coutry towns and I would have done what they SRU did. But did it have to be done in such a shoddy under hand way.

It was like a board of directors stitiching up their most loyal shareholders.

Come on Hawick
7

leithlink,

03/12/2008 18:15:31
"When you add the theft of the International 7’s from Melrose......" Eh? I disagree with that. And I'm looking forward to this years' 7s, brilliant event.
8

JBA,

03/12/2008 20:11:56
#7. maybe the 7s are brilliant at Murrayfield but would not have been a patch on the atmosphere that the Greenyards could generate, or the festival spirit in the town of Melrose.
#6 Yes come on Hawick, and Jed lets make it 4 Border teams in Div 1.
9

Big Smoke,

03/12/2008 22:04:55
If the IRB 7s where taken to Greenyards I think it would take all the gloss off the Melrose 7s and the great day that is held there, keep the IRB 7s at Murrayfield and Melrose run their own event, both are great events and great for Scotland and Borders rugby
10

Armageddon,

Fishing Boat, North Minch.... 03/12/2008 22:52:19
Cheers Jim....you have been a great servant of the game...and in the end you took the blame....which would disallow you from the SRU....a bunch of backsliding scumbags lead by a broken down PE teacher with delusions of ability, and a bean counting free loader. At least Jim was a man and stood up for his team....unlike Haddon or McKie...McKie....what a disgrace, what shocking advertisment for a real sport..Resign you weakling!. Stop killing the game we love.

I look forwards to that pair joining Jim in the dole queue.

Go Hawick and all the other Border clubs!
11

robbie from south of hadrian's wall,

harrogate 03/12/2008 23:27:46
Frank Hadden has had a bad press for sometime. Being head coach is no bed of roses, but bearing in mind the limited number of players of international standing he has available to him, he has not done too badly. The approaching 6 nations will be the true test of him. Should Scotland do badly then I am afraid that it will be the end of the road of him. However, if they do well or even better than expected,he could remain coach until the next world cup. Now there's thought.
12

J.A.,

04/12/2008 08:38:57
Leithlink #7
You can disagree all you want. Clearly you have no idea what actually happened.

Big Smoke #9
You may or may not be right that the IRB 7’s would have taken the gloss off their own 7’s. Don’t think for a minute that was the reason the SRU jumped in a took them to Murrayfield. Anyway, the Melrose club have been running their own event for over 125 years, don’t you think that they would be a good judge of what was good for their own tournament.
13

B.McGeek,

04/12/2008 08:41:25
hard luck Jim, it would appear however you were desperate to tap into te professional set up, complaining when pro/academy players Mcneil, Mcrae, Hutton, Hogg were not available, surely getting pro players is bonus and you should rely on as much local talent as possible. It was yet to see these pro players, especially Mcneil actually perform at level expected of a pro and not sure he will actually make it at a that level. Jim however was instumental in getting him back to Hawick, what other wrong decisions has he and his committee made? Is Jim totally leaving rugby or is he still involved with the players panel? If Hawick go down, where do they go then? Totally agree with all the statements above, SRU senior level have to take the fall, they are giving contracts to players that are not up to it or extending contracts for years when the players are not up to it, Haddon & Mckie should be made answerable for the sad dimise & interest in Scottish rugby.
14

wee leeves,

04/12/2008 12:28:51
Why the sympathy for Jim Hay.....Players have left that club because of the way he coaches and manages them!! Surely that has a huge effect on how they are performing on a Sat so ultimately the greater proportion of blame hase to lie witht the coach!!! There are still plenty of decent young players at Hawick but they are not performing so someone who can get the best out of them needs to be brought in! Not saying Hay wasnt a decent enough servant of the game but it was glaringly obvious that change was needed!! Will we now see Hawick battle it out in the way we are used to seeing?? I reckon we will.....Not sure what their next 3 fixtures are but i reckon we might see 3 wins.................
15

Mike D W,

04/12/2008 13:59:22
Some wonderful posts. Great to see all you Borderers moving on.

"Theft of the Internationsl 7s". Get over yourself. That contentious decision has been prove so right on so many levels.

"SRU appear to .... want Border rugby to disappear". Get over the big conspiracy theory as well. The Borders has plenty of representation on the SRU, so don't keep painting this them and us picture. It only exists in your mind.

Then there is the idea that Scottish rugby would benefit from more Borders teams in P1. Why? Would it not be better to spread the rugby word throughout Scotland. Surely it is more important to have Aberdeen and the North-East and Ayr and the Ayrshire region represented in P1 than yet another Border side.

Trouble is most Borderers can't see past the Borders.
16

J.A.,

04/12/2008 16:16:25
Don’t think anyone has said they want Borders clubs to be placed in P1 without earning promotion from P2. However, nothing would please me more than to see four or more Border teams in P1, what is wrong with that?
What is quite revealing is your feeling that it be better to have teams from Ayrshire and N/E in P1 than another Border team; why?. Your not working for the SRU are you?
The SRU’s poor treatment of the Borders in recent years is fact. I see no reason why we should just get over it because the likes of you are fed up hearing about it.
17

J.A.,

04/12/2008 16:17:35
#16 is in response to #15
18

JBA,

Galashiels 04/12/2008 16:20:30
Quite agree Mike D W, that P1 should be spread throughout Scotland, however one benefit that more Border teams in P1 would bring is bigger crowds. Right now Selkirk home crowds are as big as the FIVE Edinburgh clubs put together.
19

Mike D W,

04/12/2008 17:49:20
#16 Why is it that because I don't agree with you, then you think I must work for the SRU. Talk about a conspiracy theory. Personally, I do not believe the Borders have been treated that poorly by the SRU in recent years. It is not "fact", just your opinion.

Another difference between us is that you are from The Borders and want as many Borders clubs in P1 as possible so you can boast about the heartland of Scottish rugby. I, on the other hand, live in Edinburgh and think that 5 Edinburgh teams in P1 is a bad thing.

Ideally, if we could have 2 Edinburgh teams, 2 Borders, 2 Glasgow, 1 Ayrshire, 1 Central, 1 Tayside, 1 North-East to make a league of 10 on a semi-pro basis. This league would be ring-fenced and these clubs set-up as centres of excellence fed from their local clubs and then feeding into the Pro-Teams.

To expand this idea, we could bring back the Districts with the best players from the 3 Glasgow/Ayrshire teams making up a Glasgow District, Tayside/Central/North-East for Caledonia, Edinburgh and the South likewise. These games would bring the new talent through to the Pro-Teams.

All the other clubs could then be organised to feed into these semi-pro teams. Proper pyramid structures put in place to grow the game. Much like Brian Simmers' idea with Hawks all those years ago.

Never happened then because of sad little Borderers not being able to agree and stuck-up Edinburgh old boys thinking they were above it all. So doubt it will happen in the future. Too much joined-up thinking for most insular rugby types.
20

scotsport,

EDINBURGH 04/12/2008 20:19:57
#18 - agree that Borders fans are louder and more passionate about their rugby - but they clearly can't count! Recently reported Selkirk crowds were approx. 100% more than the quick count I made at the ground !!
21

leithlink,

04/12/2008 20:32:27
#19 I can't help thinking there are some old wounds being spewed out on these posts.
I have been going to the Melrose 7s for years and remember the halcyon days of internationalists playing for their clubs in the 7s game and a great day it was. Great social event but, of course, the drink was ancillary to the sport. Since the days of professionalism, the standard of 7s has declined markedly and now the rugby seems to be ancillary to the drink. The IRB 7s at Murrayfield returned the importance of great 7s (with an ancilary drink or two) and the two cannot really be compared. I'll continue going to the Melsrose 7s of course but knowing that it is now more social than top class world 7s standard and as long as you know that then it is OK.
Getting back to the point, Jim might have been a great servant but I'm not convinced of his coaching ability and the way he treated his own players was questionable - I agree with #14 summary of Hay. Good suggestion #19 but sadly the framework for the game was set on professionalism by ...... yes, you know who. Your suggestion would have been great at that time. Cheers, whatever your point of view.
22

Middlemarch,

Gala 05/12/2008 10:16:49
#19 I have no problems with your 10 team ring fenced league spread throughout Scotland. It was an idea floated at the time of the game going professional and was not without support in the Borders. It needed strong leadership from the SRU to implement it. Crazily the decisive leadership that exists at the moment with Mckiewould ahve done it.

With regard to the SRU's treatment of the Borders it probably looks like paranioa from the outside but I can assure you there are some merit in the complaints.

With regard to how in important rugby is down here I would give as evidence the front page (not the back page) of the Hawick News which is dedicated to Hawick RFC plight. Sure a tin pot paper etc but where else in Scotland would that happen.
23

J.A.,

05/12/2008 11:24:22
#19
I’m not entirely in disagreement with your more reasonable points put forward. A tier of district games below the pro circuit would have some merit in feeding up and coming talent into the pro game.
As #21 intimates, it sounds very much like some old wounds here. You may not like the fact that I am pro Borders and I make no apologies for that. Your comments “Trouble is most Borderers can't see past the Borders” is completely unjustified. There is nothing wrong with having passion and pride. You may want to take that out of our sport and turn it into a sterile environment, I certainly don’t.
“it is more important to have Aberdeen and the North-East and Ayr and the Ayrshire region represented in P1 than yet another Border side.” I am all in favour of increasing rugby in Scotland. In my mind this means increasing player numbers in Scotland and not spreading player numbers through Scotland. No established clubs should be asked to sacrifice its position to allow others in. Edinburgh have 5 clubs in prem 1 because these clubs are good enough to be there. It’s up to the rest of the clubs to fight hard to get into prem 1.
A priority for the SRU should be to reward the clubs and districts who have traditionally supported them. My opinion is, in recent years, the SRU have not provided the support for the Borders that they should have.

 

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