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Confident McLeish has score to settle with Dutch

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Published Date: 26 November 2007
SCOTLAND manager Alex McLeish last night declared himself quietly satisfied after the draw for the 2010 World Cup qualifying competition paired his team with the Netherlands, Norway, Macedonia and Iceland - and said he couldn't wait to get his highly-improved team back playing competitive football.
"I can't be too unhappy so bring it on," said McLeish, still reeling from Scotland's glorious failure to qualify for next year's Euro 2008 finals. "Obviously the Dutch are a good side but we don't fear anyone. As we proved against Italy and France, they will face a very difficult game when they come to Glasgow. Equally we can go to away grounds and do ourselves credit."

What seems like a generation ago, the Dutch famously humbled Scotland 6-0 in a playoff for the 2004 European Championship after losing the first leg at Hampden by a single James McFadden goal. But McLeish said there would be no repeat of that Amsterdam mauling, when Berti Vogts was in charge of the national team. "They have a tremendous history over the last 25 years but it would be great to put one over on them," said McLeish.

"We are a much better team now than when they beat us heavily in Amsterdam. Everything Holland did that night turned to gold but the players I have at my disposal are capable of competing against anybody and I'm sure they will relish going head-to-head with Holland. But let's not forget we have other challenges because we were in pot two for this draw and people see us as a scalp now."

The nine group winners go through, with the eight best runners-up going into a play-off to decide the last four finalists. Norway marginally failed to qualify for Euro 2008 after losing out to Greece and Turkey, while McLeish will not have the luxury of playing against an out-and-out minnow after being placed in the only group of five teams. Iceland, the bottom-placed team, have plenty of players with Premiership experience while Macedonia proved when drawing with England that they will be no pushovers.

"Norway should not be under- estimated, they are a very dangerous team," said McLeish, whose side will begin its campaign next August. "Like us, they will be disappointed not to have qualified for the Euros. We have massive competition in front of us."

McLeish has been widely linked with the vacant role at Birmingham but declined to speculate on whether he will still be Scotland manager by the time the 2010 qualifiers start. "I am avoiding all speculation at the moment," he said. "I don't know if I'm ready for a return to club football yet. I thought we might get Italy again. To be honest, I still haven't got over what happened against them even though I know I've got to get the nation going again. It's just that the way we lost was pretty brutal. Italy always seem to get the job done."

Before the qualifiers begin, the Scots, who last appeared in a major competition in 1998, could find themselves playing in the Celtic Cup - though not including England. "I'm not 100 per cent in favour of it but I can see the positives," McLeish said. "I'd love to play England but perhaps they feel they have bigger fish to fry."

While Greece's group was widely regarded as the easiest, England will be far from disappointed after avoiding any of the big guns. A palatable intake of collective breath was felt around the auditorium in Durban when England were paired against with their Euro 2008 nemesis Croatia, though it could have been far worse and trips to Ukraine - who Scotland, of course, know all about - Belarus, Kazakhstan and Andorra will hardly strike fear into the new England manager. One unavoidable result of England's group, however, is bound to be interminable references to 'Borat' country after they were paired with one of the furthest outposts in the European game in Kazakhstan.

Croatia coach Slaven Bilic was disappointed at being drawn with England again. "I respect them a lot and I really wanted to avoid them," he said. Bilic, however, may not be in charge by then. "My contract runs out after Euro 2008 and you can't plan long term in this job. I am focused on my job and the European Championships."

Wales face a difficult group, up against Germany and Russia as well as Finland, Azerbaijan and Liechtenstein. Northern Ireland face Slovakia, Slovenia and San Marino as well as Czech Republic and Poland. Republic of Ireland, who are managerless, must negotiate a path in a group containing defending champions Italy and Cyprus - to whom they suffered an humiliating 5-2 defeat during their unsuccessful qualifying campaign for Euro 2008.

Perhaps the most intriguing pairing was that of political and ideological rivals North and South Korea in the Asian section while Australia, playing in the Asian section for the first time, meet China, Iraq and Qatar in group one. In all, 31 nations will join hosts South Africa in the 2010 finals.

Away from the draw, FIFA president Sepp Blatter has vowed to do something about the growing trend of footballers turning out for other national teams. "If we don't take care about the invaders from Brazil, then we could have problems at the 2014 and 2018 World Cup finals," Blatter said.

Countries like Belgium, Spain, Mexico and Portugal have used Brazilians in past World Cup finals, including the likes of Deco, Marcos Senna and Luis Oliveira. In recent years Brazilian-born footballers have also played in the national teams of countries like Croatia, Macedonia, Equatorial Guinea and Togo, many of them being imported with the specific purpose of strengthening national teams. "If we don't stop the fast naturalisation of players in some countries, this will be a real danger," Blatter added. "There are 60 million footballers in Brazil but only 11 places in their national team."

Blatter also re-iterated he still wanted to limit the number of overseas players in club sides despite opposition from leading clubs and current European Union law.

Meanwhile, Nationwide has thrown its weight behind the possible revival of the Home International Championships by offering an annual prize fund of £500,000 - with the hope the competition will get underway next May.

Nationwide already sponsors all four nations and the building society's head of sponsorship Chris Hull added: "We would only support a competition providing all necessary approvals from the police and the authorities were in place. We would put forward a prize fund of £500,000. We would ask for all prize money to be donated to charity."

Flurry of Birmingham bets 'crazy'

ALEX McLeish admits he would consider an approach from Birmingham City, but the Scotland manager claims the rush of bets on him taking charge at St Andrews is "absolutely crazy".

The Barclays Premier League side are keen to make McLeish their next manager following Steve Bruce's exit to Wigan and their failure to lure Italy's World Cup-winning coach Marcello Lippi to the Midlands.

McLeish insists he has not been approached yet, however if Birmingham do make their move this week the former Rangers manager would seek permission from the Scottish Football Association to hold talks.

The 48-year-old accepts it would be a big decision to leave Scotland to return to club football. He said: "It would be and I've got a lot of thinking to do, if indeed Birmingham approach the SFA and say that they're interested."

McLeish is the hot favourite with bookmakers for the Birmingham post and is keen to manage in the English Premier League at some stage. "That is attractive to me, yes, in the long term," he added. "It's maybe something I can look forward to. I really enjoy the Scotland situation and who knows - I could be away in two or three weeks or I could be here for the next five years.

"And it wouldn't faze me to keep working with Scotland and hopefully take them to a World Cup finals.

"It's not so much undecided. If somebody was to come and make an offer or someone was attracted to take me to another club, then that's still to happen and the SFA would probably have to listen and I would have to listen.

"But I don't think at the moment that there's anything happening."

He added: "If people are putting a bet on then that's absolutely crazy, because there's absolutely no way I've done anything regarding going to Birmingham at the moment.

"I'll absolutely fulfil my Scotland duties until something else happens. At the moment there's a lot of speculation, but football is a strange game and it's unpredictable and you just don't know what can happen.

"But right now I'm the Scotland manager and the things you've been hearing and reading over the past few days is pure speculation."

ANGUS WRIGHT

Page 1 of 1

 
1

Grimsby Hibee,

In the Dam 26/11/2007 00:37:48

It couldn't have worked out better for me, I have already arrranged to go the Dutch leg with a couple of Dutch mates, and win lose or draw we are going to have a massive party in the Dam square afterwards, COME ON!

2

TaipeiBear,

26/11/2007 01:25:11

I think a pretty decent draw for Scotland and if we continue in a similar manner to recent performances (excluding Georgia!) we should be second with a shout for finishing top.

3

Kung-Half-Fu,

Cathay Panasonic 26/11/2007 01:39:22

#1. GH

I hope to be there too and hope to join any celebration in the square (as long as we are the winners!). I would say that that group is winnable for us though, given the same application we gave the Euros.

Now, is Eck's declaration that he can't wait, etc., etc., a declaration of his intent to stay in the job, or more prevarication? Time will tell.

4

Grimsby Hibee,

In the Dam 26/11/2007 01:57:55

Well no matter I have a whole nights p*ss resting on this one, going to be expensive or very enjoyable, hope we both go through because the Dutch people are great.

5

Prince Myshkin,

Golf Coast 26/11/2007 01:59:43

As an added bonus, we are in the only 5-team group, so will play 2 fewer games than the other groups. We have a great chance of at least getting to the play-offs, although second place doesn't guarantee it, so we should be looking to score a good few goals against the so-called minnows, to ensure our goal difference is as high as possible.

6

Grimsby Hibee,

In the Dam 26/11/2007 02:03:37

#5 Great draw Prince I have got my safari boots ordered for 2010, bonus being I have 2 really good mates in capetown so free digs ;)

7

Encephalon,

26/11/2007 02:25:59

Not sure if being in a group of five will be a good or bad thing-probably means avoiding two less banana skins against supposedly weaker countries.

All things considered as good a draw as we could have expected-Dutch will be obvious favourites but after the Euro qualifying it appears positively benign in comparison-not quite as good as the Greece, Israel and Switzerland group-what nationality is Sepp Blatter again-perks of the job ???

8

the boxerman,

Toronto 26/11/2007 03:08:00

A decent group. Who knows, maybe I will travel to South Africa in 2010.

Hope Eck stays in the job, because I am scared the SFA is stupid enough to give it to the beast, and he would wreck the good work done by Eck.

After all he left Newcastle and Blackburn in ruins.

Say no to the beast.

9

Mad King Bambo,

Roon at Flabskin's bit 26/11/2007 05:16:30

Why does van Basten look like an international businessman, while Oor Eck looks like some bauchle who's buttonholed him in a pub - "Haw big man! Can ah get ma photae taken wi ye?"

10

Sunshine Charlie,

Cape Town 26/11/2007 06:37:28

Oh the joys of life,a world cup to look forward to and at zero cost,I have 2 spare rooms in my hoose by the way.

Come on Alba

11

Carnbee,

Here an' there an' naewhere 26/11/2007 06:54:09

Probably the worst possible group-----------------for the cost of drink!

12

Montford's Jaicket,

Hanging around 26/11/2007 07:34:24

Probably the best we could have expected from the draw. Hopefully we will do the sensible thing and play Holland early on in the season (preferably September 6 and 9) to get the big games over. If we were to catch the Dutch out by playing them before their season started in earnest (as has happened with Italy in the past) we could take points from them. On the other hand, if we were to lose both games then no big deal as there would still be 6 games to go and the Dutch would be expected to go through as group winners so we could focus on taking max points from the remaining games. Best of all we don't have a minnow team 6 to play so fewer games means less chance of injuries - or the embarrassment of drawing away to a San Marino or Faroes. Caution still required - let's not take Norway or even Macedonia for granted. Focus on one game at a time and pick up the max points. Tell the players they are really up against World Class opposition so we don't get too arrogant! Oh, and don't go bringing up the previous result in Amsterdam. That result is past. Gone, Different competition. We start afresh - looking forward. That result is in the past and in the past it must remain - to coin a phrase!
As for Eck staying, we should mortgage Embra Castle and any other national asset to keep him. If Birmingham want a manager tell them McClaren is available, and Venables, and Souness - they might even get all 3 at a cut price rate.

13

eric,

Lothian 26/11/2007 08:18:30

Scotland doesnt fear anyone ,We would hammer England if we played them today.

14

Johnny Jambo,

26/11/2007 08:40:45

Scotland could do well in this group, however we need all our best players fit and available and playing to their best in all the group matches. We also need to focus on all the games in the group. Holland are not the only danger, although I agree with some who say that Holland are no longer the threat they used to be, but Norway are no mugs and neither are Macedonia, they did draw with England and they also beat Croatia when Croatia really needed the win. It will still be tough although I think we are definately on the up as a fotballing nation.

15

Media 1,

cape town 26/11/2007 08:46:39

The top 8 second place finishers play a qualifier.

How does that work with Scotland? We only have 5 teams in our group?

16

madmac,

26/11/2007 08:50:56

I'm reading conflicting reports as to the runners-up spot in the Spanish press.

Says here that only the runners-up from groups 1 to 8 qualify for the play offs and that Group 9 only has one place:- the winning one...

Another report says the top 8 from the 9 groups qualify for head to heads over 2 legs between all eight , with the eventual winner qualifying.

Could anyone out there clear this up please..

17

NoisyScot,

Bath 26/11/2007 09:01:15

Media 1 (Post 15) is correct. Group winners qualify automatically, top eight runners-up (on points, goal difference, etc) then progress to a second stage where they are paired up, each pair playing a home and away leg.

It's spelled out in the "Draw Format" section on this page: http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminarydraw/index.html

18

Media 1,

cape town 26/11/2007 09:03:07

I think Scotland will need to qualify out right! Unless there is some formula that FIFA have worked out for determining the outcome.......

Does not make sense though! How can the 2nd place team in our group gather enough points to compete with teams who are playing for an additional 6 points?

19

Johnny Jambo,

26/11/2007 09:03:13

My understanding is that the best 8 runners up will go into four play off's and each of the winners go through to the finals.
Doesnt matter if there are kless teams in Scotland group they will still have a play of spot if they are on of the top eight runners up.

20

TaipeiBear,

26/11/2007 09:07:48

In group's 1 to 8, the results of the second placed team against the team finishing last in the group will be excluded and then there will be a direct comparison across all 9 groups to determine the best 8 runners up.

The fifa website has a reasonable explanation. So we shoot for first place but still have a chance if we finish a good second.

21

Media 1,

cape town 26/11/2007 09:09:38

Johhny Jambo

All the other teams play 10 games, we only play 8.

That means we are short of a possible 6 points. So we are out of the running prior to starting.

22

Waitin´and hopin,

State of dilerium 26/11/2007 09:10:45

All 9 groups are considered for the best last 8....they disregard the games involving the lowest seeded teams in the 8 groups that have 6 teams. So Scotland are in with the same chance as England or any other 2nd seeded team.

23

Media 1,

cape town 26/11/2007 09:12:37

#20 Taipeibear

WELL DONE! Makes perfect sense.

In otherwords, the results against the last teams in groups 1 to 8 will not count, whereas ALL the games in our group will count.

But if we finish 1st we dont need to worry about that anyway. And we will finish first, we are good enough to go through this group without dropping points.

24

madmac,

madrid 26/11/2007 09:13:16

cheeers noisyscot

With 13 spots available for 2010 from Europe the 9 group winners and the 4 winners of the head to heads from top 8 play offs qualify.

Lets hope we win the group and avoid the play offs.

If we keep up the recent good work no reason not to be confident at the moment.

Wonder if the English will repect the Croatian national anthem this time round...

25

TaipeiBear,

26/11/2007 09:17:29

#22 - it is the last placed team in the group for groups 1 to 8 that the results are excluded to compare the best placed second team, not the lowest seeded. Small point but worth mentioning.

26

TaipeiBear,

26/11/2007 09:25:22

Media 1

Yes let's hope we don't need to worry about play off spots.

I'm really concerned about McLeish's comments in the press this morning that he'll talk to Birmingham if they approach the SFA. We really do not want to lose him at this stage given the progress (excepting Georgia).

The thought of Souness in charge is not worth contemplating. Who else do we have to come in?

27

Johnny Englander,

26/11/2007 09:33:19

#26

Billy Davies.

28

Joe, Joe,

Around the place 26/11/2007 09:36:35

#26

McLeish is almost bound to go ireckon, as his stock at the moment will not get much higher than this after the Euro 08 qualifiers

Norway are the team which should be watched out for!!

29

Greenanwhite1,

26/11/2007 09:52:51

We need to watch out for ALL the teams in our group.Even Iceland. This might not be the "Group of Death" like Euro 2008 but it is still a mighty tough group. The Scotsman printed a "hardest" and "easiest" group scenario on Saturday and 3 of the teams we will be facing were in their so-called "hardest" group. So let's not get carried away. I rteckon if we can get 2nd place out of this group we will have done well. Holland may not be the side they were but they are still very, very tough opponents. Norway are not as good as Holland but we will do well to beat them at Hampden never mind in Oslo. We need not be fearful just respectful.

30

Jamster,

26/11/2007 10:07:31

England will be far from disappointed after avoiding any of the big guns. A palatable intake of collective breath was felt around the auditorium in Durban when England were paired against with their Euro 2008 nemesis Croatia, though it could have been far worse and trips to Ukraine - who Scotland, of course, know all about - Belarus, Kazakhstan and Andorra will hardly strike fear into the new England manager.

Eh? Is this guy for real? So what if England missed the 'big guns' They can't handle Croatia and Ukraine are a huge threat

31

Scota Nostra,

26/11/2007 10:09:02

No.27 Trust you to come up with a suggestion like that, is that what you would call an English sense of humour? You should be worrying about the appointment of Engerland's next coach. Although the conception seems to be that Scotland have been drawn in "favourable" group, I much prefer it when we are the underdogs and written off as no-hopers. That seems to bring out the best in our players. By the time these matches are played, McLeish will have departed for the Premiership, so, a new coach with new ideas. Hope we continue to improve, no matter who takes over in charge.

32

Johnny Englander,

26/11/2007 10:10:59

#29

Macedonia are no mugs.

33

Grimsby Hibee,

In the Dam 26/11/2007 10:16:00

I think we can win the group none of them scare me, Holland are p*sh, but they may get better, im hoping they have a good Euro and keep van basten, his tactics are mince, they have not impressed me at all in the live games I have watched here.

34

Black Five,

edinburgh 26/11/2007 10:17:43

A decent draw.I was hoping we could avoid Germany and Italy as that`s the two teams we seem incapable of beating.As it happened we did so let`s make this a real push to get back to the World Cup Finals once more.

35

AJ of Fife,

26/11/2007 10:19:43

Hopefully Big Eck will stick around to guide us through a pretty tough group. It gives me the heebeejeebies whenever the name Souness is quoted as a possible replacement! Aitken or Burns would be just as bad!

It has to be Big Eck to take us into the fray! The prospect of getting tore into the sex mad junkies of Holland is an appealing prospect for 99% of the Tartan Army!

36

Grimsby Hibee,

In the Dam 26/11/2007 10:29:55

Info for anybody thinking about doing the Dutch trip, my Dutch mates reckon there will only be 2 possibilities for the game location aganst us. De Kuip (Rotterdam) or the Arena (In the Dam), for obvious reasons im hoping for the latter. There is also Eindhoven (small ground), but that is unlikely because they will expect a large travelling support from the TA.

37

Robroy1,

England 26/11/2007 10:36:12

I will pop down to the shop and get me a dutch shirt! Along with my 'I support two teams, England and anyone who plays Scotland' shirt

38

Grimsby Hibee,

In the Dam 26/11/2007 10:37:57

# 37 Wanna borrow my Croatian shirt?

39

Johnny Englander,

26/11/2007 10:43:15

~38

I've got a Georgian shirt I don't wear now.

40

Grimsby Hibee,

In the Dam 26/11/2007 10:45:16

# 39 jeez we should open a shirt shop

41

Riley Hamish,

Edina 26/11/2007 10:59:58

#40 GRIMSBY HIBEE

Are you REALLY a Hibby living in Grimsby???

Lucky white heather on both counts really??
Did you upset someone??
Are you a sado-masochist???
Yer hidin' fae the Mob maybe, Eh??

Could it be the presence of a Hibby that put the "grim" in Grimsby??????? (Jist Kiddin' !!!)

42

Greenanwhite1,

26/11/2007 11:08:40

#32
I agree. That's what I'm saying. NONE of the teams we are facing are mugs. They are all quite capable of beating us. With (hopefully) or without Big Eck at the helm. I'm not saying we can't qualify, of course we can but just let's not think of it as a formality. It's far from that

43

Helen,

26/11/2007 11:32:23

Robroy, you're a racist when you make comments like that. Anyway why do you feel the need to bring England into a discussion on Scotland's qualifying group? Worry about Scotland and let the English worry about England....

44

Media 1,

cape town 26/11/2007 11:40:24

The photo of the two managers delivers a lot of Dutch Orange in the back ground.....Not an omen I hope!

But moving along to more serious matters. Scotland can be happier with their draw than Holland can be with theirs. Of all the teams in pot 2, Holland probably wanted to avoid Scotland the most! Glasgow is a tough place to visit, and a rejuvinated Scotland squad is not a monster that can be tamed easily. So all in all, we cannot complain!

McLeish: I hope he stays, it will be good for momentum. He did state in the article that he wasnt ready for club football, so maybe thats a good thing. He has a chance to prove himself as a great manager. He really can get Scotland here in 2010, and if he does that, HE CAN be the first manager in history to get us through to the next round. He would be the most celebrated manager in the history of Scottish football if he did that. AND that must be at the back of his mind, its a challenge, will he take it? I think he just might........

45

AJ of Fife,

26/11/2007 11:43:58

Helen#43,

It's only fitba, and besides, it means we can wade into the England team threads with all guns blazin'!

46

TaipeiBear,

26/11/2007 12:05:40

#44 Media 1

I hope you're right. I'm surprised he sees Birmingham as an attraction. Now if MON becomes England manager and Villa were available then that's a better option. What odds on Liverpool once Rafa goes?

Anyway - hope he stays with Scotland - even just to avoid the fear that Souness is considered.

47

Montford's Jaicket,

Hanging around 26/11/2007 12:23:52

Well, I hope that Graeme Souness is working as an international coach within the month.

Surely it won't take the FA that long to get him in to replace Steve McClaren?

48

Johnny Englander,

26/11/2007 12:25:08

I think England and Scotland should be pleased with their draws.

Holland aren't the team they used to be, there strikers aren't as potent as they used to be (Nistlerooy, Kuyt and Huntelaar) and their best player (Van Persie) is always injured.

Macedonia are a tough outfit, they've already beaten Holland and Croatia recently quite comfortably.

As for Norway? Riise, Carew and Pedersen are good players, but the rest play in the Norwegian league.

England should be a different outfit in 10 months, especially with a proper Manager this time, whether its Capello or Redknapp. And Croatia will find them a lot harder to beat, Ukraine will have Shevchenko who will nearly be 33 by then, so it could have been a lot worse.

We could have got Italy, Germany or Holland as the top seed group.

49

Norwegian,

26/11/2007 12:29:54

Holland is of course the favourite team, but both Scotland and Norway are capable of winning the group. This group is completely open in my perspective.

Iceland has several good players, many of them with experience from good leagues all over Europe. On a good day they can beat anyone. They have even beaten Spain a few years ago.

Macedonia I don't know that much about, but most teams from the Balkan are usually difficult to play against.

From a Norwegian point of view I mostly fear Scotland. Not because you are a better team than Holland, but because you're always playing with a big heart. Holland is currently over the top, and seems to fit the Norwegian playing style better than the British way of playing.

50

Busymale,

26/11/2007 12:40:19

"I really enjoy the Scotland situation and who knows - I could be away in two or three weeks or I could be here for the next five years."

Clearly the words of someone totally committed to his current role!

51

Johnny Englander,

26/11/2007 12:45:55

If McLesih goes, he'll be remembered as the man who brought back pride back to the Intrenational game.

If he stays, and Scotland fail to get to Africa in 2010, especially now with the expectation level being high, he'll been known as another McLeod or Roxburgh.

Is McLeish going to take the gamble though? Or does he miss everyday football? Leaving Scotland for Birmingham has to be a come down, doesn't it?

52

Norwegian,

26/11/2007 12:49:06

"As for Norway? Riise, Carew and Pedersen are good players, but the rest play in the Norwegian league."


*****It's not quite true that all the rest play in Norway. However, the Norwegian league isn't that bad. Rosenborg, which finished in 5th place this year, just recently beaten Valencia over two games in the Champions League.

53

Black & White Triumph,

pensive 26/11/2007 13:02:04

If you were a neutral (which I'm not) this would be the most fiercely competitive group, everyone can and will take points of the others, the eventual winners will deserve to qualify and go on and win the World Cup.

Scotland must do better away from Fortress Hampden, our home games must be won and if we win 3 from 4 of our away ones we're on the plane to SA.

Easy win 7 and qualify, let just get right intae them from the start

54

Black & White Triumph,

pensive 26/11/2007 13:05:00

have you seen the size of Van Basten heade, how did something that small connect with so many balls

55

madmac,

madrid 26/11/2007 13:11:07

if big Eck decides to leave and take the B'ham job will he stay at the crossroads motel or are there more luxuriuos places to live in that part of the country?

Souness for the England job!!

56

kimba,

26/11/2007 13:22:19

45,AJ. my dads from Dundee, but people like you make me hate Scotland with a passion,and make once a proud Scot ashamed of his land of birth.

57

busbyfh,

26/11/2007 13:26:34

I cannot for the life of me understand why folk on here think Scotland has a great draw.
Holland will win the group.
To qualify , we need to finish a good second , but there is the problem.
After the groups are finished - Our group's second place has their points "flexed" to make a comparison with the other second places.
As the other groups all have teams like San Marino , Andorra etc. these second placed teams will all have had a guaranteed six points in the bag. Scotland WILL NOT.That is unless you regard Iceland away as an absolute cert. Which it isn't
in short - the other groups ALL have more chance of gaining "cheap points" than we have.
For example - "Mugs" in our group like Macedonia have played England four times recently. Losing one , winning one and drawing Two.
Easy eh ??????????????????????????????????????

58

kimba,

26/11/2007 13:27:27

56.Don't know who'll get the England job,but I can guarantee it WON'T be a Scot!

59

Norwegian,

26/11/2007 13:34:21

58. busbyfh.

The results from the other groups will be adjusted to make a real and fear comparison, by removing the results against the teams finishing last in each group.

60

Huntly loon,

Aberdeenshire 26/11/2007 13:45:00

Having gone through a Euro group with Italy, France and Ukraine, Scotland must have a very good chance of getting to the World Cup finals after that apprenticeship.

They have only one distant game Macedonia, which is a lot nearer than Georgia or Ukraine, where we really did come a cropper.

Iceland, Norway and Holland are three of our nearest neighbours so there should be a substantial Tartan Army following to all those games.

After our performances against France and to some extent against Italy, I think Holland and Norway will be much more wary of us than hitherto, and they should not frighten our present players, provided we give them the respect and determination that we gave France and Italy.

After our Euro group of death we have at last been dealt a hand that is as favourable as we could expect in such a competion. If we maintain our current Fifa ranking of 12th in Europe, we ought to achieve one of the 13 european places available.

We have never had a better chance in a long time.

61

Johnny Englander,

26/11/2007 14:17:33

#58

Good point apart from:
"Mugs" in our group like Macedonia have played England four times recently. Losing one , winning one and drawing Two.
Easy eh ??????????????????????????????????????

Its actually lost twice, and drew twice.

Euro 2004 Campaign.

England 2 - 2 Macedonia (Beckham, Gerrard)
Macedonia 1 - 2 England (Rooney's first goal for England, and a Beckham penalty)

Euro 2008 Campaign.

Macedonia 0 - 1 England (Crouch)
England 0 - 0 Macedonia

62

AJ of Fife,

26/11/2007 14:25:21

Kimba#57

"45,AJ. my dads from Dundee...."

I notice you have dad as a plural! Did your auld maw work the Gellatly St patch!

63

kimba,

26/11/2007 14:31:47

61, Mmm, I was born and bred in England,it's my country,my dad has lived here for 32 years;even he is ashamed of Scotland,as he says, 'SALMOND IS OUT TO SECURE HIS OWN ENDS,AND HE GETS SUPPORT FROM THOSE WHO DO SCOTLAND A DISSERVICE.

64

AJ of Fife,

26/11/2007 14:31:58

#65,

?

65

Doc Martin,

Dundee 26/11/2007 14:34:27

Like a lot o' people are commenting, it could have been a lot worse. Macedonia are the team that we should not under estimate. They are technically very good and seem to have quite a strong team bond from seeing bits of them on TV.

I would really like to see McLeish stay in the job but his shameless refusal to really comit to Scotland is making me very uneasy. If he leaves and we appoint a new man that doesnt quite find his international feet quickly.... we could very easily lose all the good work done over that last 3 years...

66

,

26/11/2007 14:45:23
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason: Scotsman Import, Original comment id: 1175201, Article id was mapped to record!
67

Johnny Englander,

26/11/2007 14:47:23

#68

Common sense prevails.

A lot can happen in 12 months.

Scotland could top the group at the end of 2009, or they could be third behind Norway, or finish second a play a Turkey, Russia, England or Sweden in a 2 legged game.

It was only a couple of years ago Berti was in charge. If McLeish goes (and he will), the SFA need to choose carefully about the next manager. They can't feck it up.

Scotland have some good young players, but as proved with England, if the manager is feckless, then the players don't play to their best ability.

68

Hobo Harry,

It's only Kaunas Dorothy 26/11/2007 14:51:13

Given that big Eck is for the off, I see those kind people at Derby have kindly arranged a new manager for us............

ochone ochone

69

AJ of Fife,

26/11/2007 14:52:02

Kimba,

Exactly how many personalities do you possess?

Are you on a Section?

70

kimba,

26/11/2007 14:59:28

70, son, I'm afraid to say you have the brain capacity of a natter jack toad,only someone of your intellect could possibly support such a person as A.Salmond,he has been around spinning his bile for many years waiting for the time when ejits like you would put him into power;ah well,have your fun,BUT don't come crying to England and the rest of the UK when it all go's wrong.

71

kimba,

26/11/2007 15:05:55

aj,sorry,kimba is away off ta work,I have a few days holiday so am having a wee go,and please don't talk to ma wee bairn like that

72

Andrah,

26/11/2007 15:14:32

Sounds to me like Kimba left to take up post as an accomplished Professor of English??

73

AJ of Fife,

26/11/2007 15:15:10

#75,

Of course you are....now just put the gun down....think of a happy time......there, now that wasn't too hard was it?

74

Ayrborn,

New York 26/11/2007 15:50:31

Back to the topic. I think McLeish is offski. As for replacements, Souness was a great player but is a confrontational, divisive manager who alientates players and runs clubs into the ground (unless he is managing in the Old Firm goldfish bowl). We have a harmonious squad with great spirit. We don't need Souness in the dressing room in a vein-throbbing rage at the drop of a hat and fighting players on the training ground. Harmony gone, team spirit in the pan, results dry up. Replacements are really thin on the ground but possibilities who may work are Tommy Burns (if he is no longer in a huff and keeping in mind that he may be seriously conflicted if we ever had a competive game against the Republic of Ireland) and Alex Miller (if he can be lured away from Anfield). What about Joe Jordan and Big Roy? Neither had sterling careers in the managerial jobs they occupied but are successful behind the scenes guys who have played at the highest level.

75

gr8scot,

Toronto 26/11/2007 15:51:53

There is no doubt Big Eck will leave, and if everybody else out there can be honest for a minute, if you had a chance to double your money at another job you would take it in a heartbeat. Loyality in pro sports is a thing of the past, managers, players go where their bread is buttered. That's reality. Frankly I'd would love to see Eck stay, we're sitting as high as I can recall for many a year, I don't understand why so many people want him out, is it a Rangers thing? I'm a Gers fan but I would not care if the manager came from Pluto green as long as he got results. The SFA has to anty up and make Eck a happy camper. Lets not throw all the hard work away that Scotland have achieved. I'm still not over the Italy game either.

76

BEMUSED EXILE,

26/11/2007 16:05:50

Graeme Souness, for me, with the experience and profile that he possesses, is a fairly obvious choice, and the fact that he wouldn't cost the managerial equivalent of a "transfer fee" is another factor in his favour.

The departure of Billy Davies from Derby seems uncannily timely however, so I wonder if he may be a dark horse in the race that's bound to develop if, or when, Eck departs for Birmingham (or maybe Derby?)

Perhaps the SFA, with a decent compensation payment for the departure of McLeish, less than a year after picking up a fat cheque after losing Smith, will be willing to splash out on 2 full-time posts for a coach and an assistant. Am I right in thinking that Davies was a player at Ibrox under Souness? Could even become a Souness/Davies "dream-team"?

I'd be happy with that.

77

paulmac,

surrey 26/11/2007 16:13:32

#57....Kimba

"my dads from Dundee"

You have our sympathies....

78

paulmac,

surrey 26/11/2007 16:16:40

#58

The points won by teams against the team finishing in sixth place in the groups with six teams will be discounted....to give our group a fair comparison as we only have 5.

Therefore no cheap points....

79

Grimsby Hibee,

In the Dam 26/11/2007 16:19:02

#41 Yeap, sad i Know but i dont actually live there little village outside, at the moment i live in the Dam but my house is there, and yeah i know they are sh*te! But worse places to be ive been in most of them, probably on a scale of ten its got to be peterhead thats a forty, what a sh*thole

80

paulmac,

surrey 26/11/2007 16:19:11

#66

How would he know?

He's not lived there for 32 years?

81

Erik Huurman,

The Netherlands 26/11/2007 16:38:58

Allright w'll take Scotland with 5-0 next time in Amsterdam instead of 6-0, w'll give one for free. Same as we did in Hampden, we gave one for free aswell ;-)

No, just kidding here. It's good to have Scotland in the team. Good for the balance I think. I guess that Iceland won't be a problem for the Dutch aswell as Norway. The struggle will be with Scotland and Macedonia and if the Dutch are not careful enough it will be a struggle with all.

I'm allready looking forward to the matches in this Poule...

Cheers,

Erik

82

paulmac,

surrey 26/11/2007 16:39:43

#80

No Loyalty in pro football?

1. He is well paid.

2. He gets paid the full life of his contract....even if sacked.

83

Grimsby Hibee,

In the Dam 26/11/2007 16:41:06

# 87 Erik you will have to improve, from what i have seen the Dutch side are well below their usual standards, if you keep playing mince we will have ya!

84

James Duffy,

Surrey 26/11/2007 16:46:12

#81
Yes, we might as well have another couple of ex Rangers' in charge. If Souness and Davies turn it down we could always ask Advocat and Le Guen!

85

BEMUSED EXILE,

26/11/2007 16:49:18

Holland narrowly qualified for Euro 2008 by "splitting" Rumania and Bulgaria, while Norway were unlucky to be pipped by Greece and Turkey. However, I would still say that Scotland's achievement in running Italy and France close was more impressive than either of those, so we have no need to feel inferior to anybody in this group.

All the away matches, however, and also the home matches against Hoilland and Norway, will be very difficult, so we need to be at our best.

But we can go into it with no fear.

86

BEMUSED EXILE,

26/11/2007 16:52:06

Could do so much worse, James.

I'm not really interested in where they've been though, to be honest.

What are Venglos and Jansen up to these days? I saw John Barnes getting kicked off "Strictly Come Dancing" at the weekend, so I guess he's available?

87

jerrymanders,

26/11/2007 16:54:27

Walter Smith, Alex McLeish, Graeme Souness, (Billy Davies),......er seems to be a running theme here.......Go on. Push the boat out SFA. Go and steal Martin O'Neil from under England's nose. All of Scotland would surely unite under that progressive signing as manager?

88

James Duffy,

Surrey 26/11/2007 16:57:35

#92
Barnes got kicked off? Thanks for telling me. I've recorded it and planned to watch it tonight. No need to bother now!

89

gr8scot,

toronto 26/11/2007 16:57:54

#88 Your missing the point mate, I'm well paid at my job as well, but if someone is willing to double my wages I'm your man, are you telling me you wouldn't? besides I think the role of a manager is a bit overrated anyway, your only as good as the guys on the field, your job is to motivate them to play at their highest level, I think Eck can do that. Scotland does not have the luxury of say the likes of Germany, Italy , and England who have huge pools of players from which to choose from, we're limited to a select few, which makes Eck's job a bit trickier, from what I've seen he's done a helluva job.

90

BEMUSED EXILE,

26/11/2007 17:01:58

Well Jerry.

Is Scotland ready for the Kenny Dalglish/Murdo McLeod dream ticket?

91

Norwegian,

26/11/2007 17:02:27

87 Erik said: "I guess that Iceland won't be a problem for the Dutch aswell as Norway. The struggle will be with Scotland and Macedonia and if the Dutch are not careful enough it will be a struggle with all."


***You can't be serious? Do you know anything of European football at all?

92

James Duffy,

Surrey 26/11/2007 17:05:08

#95
Big Eck has done a great job for Scotland as did Walter Smith before him. They have collectively restored Scotland's pride in the international arena. If McLeish wants to move back into club management then good luck to him. I wish him well.

93

Johnny Englander,

26/11/2007 17:16:36

Seeems Ironic that St. Andrews is next week, and that's exactly where Eck is heading.

St. Andrews, probably next week.

94

BEMUSED EXILE,

26/11/2007 17:17:19

I really don't think that either Smith or McLeish should be criticised for leaving the Scotland post to return to club football at a high level. It's their living at the end of the day and they're not behaving any different to how must of us would if we were offered a more challenging and far better paid position with a rival company.

There are a lot of non-Rangers fans on these threads who take pleasure in mocking the managerial abilities of those 2 men but still want to reserve the right to say that they've left their country in the lurch.

James is spot on at #98.

95

Johna,

26/11/2007 17:18:57

Very exciting group, Holland a bit favourites but Scotland, Macedonia and Norway will fight to the end. One of the most difficult place for away game is Macedonia, they'll be really up for this, Norway is a good team as well, so Scotland get ready for some tough ride.

96

BEMUSED EXILE,

26/11/2007 17:26:20

Let's be honest.

Does Holland, Norway, Macedonia and Iceland look like a more formidable task than Italy, France, Ukraine and Lithuania?

Not really. If we can apply ourselves as well in the 8 games as we did in the 8 games against those teams, we will be okay.

97

A Clamper,

Scotland 26/11/2007 17:26:29

McLeish would be mad to take the Birmingham job. They are a team going nowhere and he would only end up getting the sack a year down the line. Stick with Scotland Alex and lead us to South Africa.

98

jerrymanders,

26/11/2007 17:40:41

#96

Not likely! However, Sounness would be a massively backward step and Billy Davies...OFF! Get MON and the country will unite, no doubt,...at all,.......definitely...

99

Warden An' All, Reborn,

26/11/2007 17:58:20

If we are to have any chance what so ever in qualifying for the 2010 world cup in South Africa, we must pray that the Dutch have collectively forgotten Scotland’s weakness they utilised the last time they played us, and the other teams don’t catch on either. You may want to believe that the major improvement in the way our team performs will be enough to beat teams like Holland, but take the Italians for example; they triumphed with a goal which was delivered high up, much in the same fashion as most of the Dutch goals were. The truth is Scottish football can’t handle high balls, and any team realising this could pick us off very easily.

100

Bzzzz1314,

Embra 26/11/2007 18:18:39

#107

MON? Are you taking the pi$$???

He's rubbish!

101

Warden An' All, Reborn,

26/11/2007 18:22:12

The way things are going it looks like we would be better off trying out for the GB team in the olympics, and you never know we might be better to take it forward from there.

102

Warden An' All, Reborn,

26/11/2007 18:41:21

111/bring them on - McLeish took over a well established team, and then managed to act stupid for the Georgia game. When he managed Rangers he was uninspiring, you wait and see, come this next competition, boom, the Dutch have already seen us coming, and will keep the ball high and out of our reach.

103

jerrymanders,

26/11/2007 18:45:06

#109

So's McLeish!

104

LyonHearts,

mum's gone to Iceland 26/11/2007 18:51:56

The trip to Iceland should be a laugh! If anyone here is going could they bring me back two family size packs of Findus chicken Italian and a jumbo box of chocolate cornettos

105

anakin,

Anywhere west of the Hootsmon and the Spook 26/11/2007 18:53:24

During a wee spat the other night, whilst extolling the virtues of a poster's moniker (Jim Baxter), who, in my opinion was the finest player to play for this nation, another poster stated; and I quote;

82. Hunky Dorey, Glasgow / 9:44pm 24 Nov 2007
#81 Scotland is not a nation. Scotland is a province of England! So get used to it! Rule Britannia.

So there you have it. The Scotland World Cup pool will have to be altered to read;

The Netherlands (commonly known as Holland – which is a province of the Netherlands)
A Province of England (Scotland)
Norway
Iceland
Macedonia

I am assuming that Hunky Dorey is proposing that "Rule Britannia" should be put forward for our national anthem. A wonderfully stirring piece of music, I agree but is not quite "fit for purpose" for the land that we live in.

One has to be concerned for us all if this poster represents a cross section of this site. Now the "Renaissance" and the "Enlightenment" have already occurred, I am assured, but it does beggar belief that the "dark and middle ages" still apply to certain parts of Glasgow, if this poster has to be given any credence.

I think we have a decent chance of progressing if the management team (of whatever hue) continue the progress that has seen us rise under Walter Smith and Alex McLeish to be within the top 16 in the world, from nowhere really.

106

Silence of the Yams,

26/11/2007 19:05:33

Let's be honest is McLeish any real loss? He ran out of ideas at Easter Road and then did the same at Ibrox, lost his last two games for Scotland, so I say no. I have my doubts about hm in England. He knows nowt about English football, and that gimp Andy Watson even less.

107

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 26/11/2007 19:32:25

Is the job of Scotland manager to merely be a staging post for taking people off the dole onto something else, or what?

Do all these posters know nothing about integrity?

When does McLeish's contract run out?

I'm sure, somewhere along the line, a less than gutless/old boys network SFA could hold McLeish to his contract and refuse any club from speaking to him. Then reality in compensation would kick in.

In the meantime, I would like to see Craig Levein being gently eased into the system with a view of taking the job after 2010. And I reckon he would be a good bet as a decent long term manager who wouldn't jump ship at the first good job done.

Lest we forget, McLeish has achieved nothing tangible yet in his tenure.

108

jerrymanders,

26/11/2007 19:44:25

Baxter was good, Jinky was better. So was King Kenny.

109

stan free,

calgary 26/11/2007 20:29:48

souness, daglish. jordan ; you're having a giraffe

steve paterson it has to be

110

Juicy,

Cheshire 26/11/2007 20:49:32

I wonder if Scotland being in a group of 5 are at a disadvantage. Second place spots are determined by points won (not goal difference), and we play two fewer games than other groups. Check out the attached link to the Fifa rules document.

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/tournament/competition/fi...

111

Silence of the Yams,

26/11/2007 20:53:29

I think it has to be Levein, because he's the one guy the, 'swimming in Sky millions', English won't touch after his Leceister flop. A shame for United fans, and a shame for the spl because United have been a breath of frsh air under Levien, but dog eat dog.

112

Jock Tamson,

Scotland, Caledonia, Alba 26/11/2007 21:35:26

bring them on, japan. I said that McLeish has done nothing tangible yet. I think he should honour his contract and see if he does do something tangible.

We could start off by defining something tangible as qualifying for something apart from glorious failure.

Bertie has already achieved that. Surely going beyond that remit is not too much to ask?

113

Silence of the Yams,

26/11/2007 22:28:11

Levein is the only choice I can see. Old man Smith was the best guy, but he stupidly went back to Rangers, a choice he will regret in my view. If Ferguson had retired from United he could have had the job into his 70's, alas... Tango man might be an option. Has fashioned a good Aberdeen despite no money from mega rich Milne. Maybe the SFA should hold fire: if McLeish fails at Brirmingham - highly likely! He'll come crawling back! Birmingham are a YO YO club.

114

karin m,

Fri 30 november boycott the scotsman forums 27/11/2007 00:14:07

3 days to boycott the scotsman day.

Fri 30 november boycott the scotsman forums

any poster failing to adhere to the boycott on fri 30th novemeber will themselves be boycotted.

115

JamesyBHOY,

27/11/2007 00:57:49

Levein is the only choice I can see. Old man Smith was the best guy, but he stupidly went back to Rangers, a choice he will regret in my view. If Ferguson had retired from United he could have had the job into his 70's, alas... Tango man might be an option. Has fashioned a good Aberdeen despite no money from mega rich Milne. Maybe the SFA should hold fire: if McLeish fails at Brirmingham - highly likely! He'll come crawling back! Birmingham are a YO YO club.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

When you say T-Man, I hope ffs that you ain't referring to Calderwood!

Forget all the Calderwood, Jefferies, Souness, Dalglish & the rest of it.

If Freck goes which if Birmingham come in for him, he'll jump ship quicker than old uncle Walter. What's the bets Gordon Smith shows his true face & goes for the reject Davies. He didn't want to know when they were looking for contenders at the time of the Vogts reign. I think he was still at Preston & he ruled himself out because he said he had ambitions to get into the EPL or something similar.

If we're going for a Scottish manager, then it has to be our 3 best. Smith, Strachan & Collins should be appointed co-bosses. Collins is a future international manager, so will get valuable experience from the other 2 right now.

If that failed, then I'd appoint Collins & Levein asd co-bosses.

Other than that there is nobody. Ferguson won't come, nor will Moyes. None of the other bosses have the right experience, so that's why I'd go for multiple bosses. Combine their views & we'd stand a much better chance.

If we still failed, then I'd go abroad. Show some ambition & ask Lippi or Capello to take it. They'll probably say no, but if you don't ask, then you don't get. I'd then turn to Van Gaal who is a great experienced manager. Not only would such bosses take us forward & make us a great international team. They'd actually have the


 

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