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Macedonia 1 - 0 Scotland: Damage done in Skopje could be beyond repair



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Published Date: 08 September 2008
THIS may be only the dawn of the World Cup qualifying campaign, but, proverbially, it is the time that offers the best opportunity to catch the worm. In Macedonia, Scotland overslept.
The need of an early rise, fully awake and alert to the possibilities of a fruitful day, is especially urgent when the schedule is as truncated as the one facing the Scots in Group 9, presenting only eight matches in which to amass enough points to secure at least a place in the play-offs that will nourish the hope of reaching South Africa in two years' time.

This is no long-distance event, with a chance of overhauling front-runners who may weaken as a result of setting the kind of scorching pace that cannot be maintained. With three of those precious points already gone beyond recall, it is impossible to avoid the conclusion that the expedition to Skopje was an unqualified disaster.

The defeat is damaging enough in itself, but of even more depressing significance was the manner in which it was sustained and the absence of any portents that would encourage belief in the possibility of a more productive immediate future, that an already unpromising predicament can be remedied.

Whatever optimistic pronouncements the manager, George Burley, and his players may make – and they cannot reasonably be expected to say anything else in public – they are overwhelmed by the visual evidence of a performance at the Gradski Stadium which hints strongly at forthcoming bleakness.

At the core of this pessimism is the inescapable truth that, with the possible exception of the goalkeeper, Craig Gordon, the present Scotland squad does not boast a single outstanding player, one who would be coveted by a leading club or country for his ability to exert a telling, even decisive, influence on a match.

Macedonia, contrastingly, had several, but most notably Veliche Shumolikoski, and he plays for Ipswich Town, currently occupying 17th place in the Championship in England. As the tall midfielder took control of his designated area, pushing past opponents at will, sending passes to teammates in threatening positions and providing menace of his own in forward areas, it was difficult to remember when the Scots last possessed a player of such intimidating potency.

It was Shumolikoski who, having moved on to a headed clearance of a corner kick by Paul Hartley, produced the thundering, 30-yard volley in the second half which prompted an astonishing save from Gordon, the latter having seen the ball late as it swerved high to his left. Gordon had to be similarly reactive to push a close-range volley on the turn from Ilco Naumoski over his bar when the striker reached a long throw-in from the right.

This excellent work from Gordon was required during a second half in which Burley, ludicrously, had described his team's performance as "outstanding". For all the improvement they had shown compared to their lifelessness in the first 45 minutes, they had not given the home goalkeeper, Petar Milosevski, anything like the problems with which Gordon had to cope.

In his bizarre description of the Scots' work after the interval, it is fair to say that Burley would be a victim of the mild irrationality that afflicts managers in the immediate aftermath of a fraught experience, when their minds are in turmoil and their tongues run loose, like horses turned out in a field.

Burley may be generally unimpressive as a public speaker – it is, for example, difficult to imagine him capable of the oratory that will inspire players to excel themselves, to achieve results that belie their overall mediocrity – but he will certainly be astute enough to realise in private that the most serious hindrance to his chances of doing an acceptable job is the basic shoddiness of his equipment.

He already appears to have modified his initial intention of turning the Scots into a more aggressive unit, with midfield players thrusting forward in support of strikers and putting opponents under pressure, even in away games. By the eve of the match in Skopje, he was talking of "making us hard to beat, and then attacking when the opportunity arises".

The 4-4-2 he favoured may have appeared an aggressive formation on paper, but it was clear from the start that the priority was containment, with the aim of countering at opportune moments. That the plan should disintegrate within five minutes, when Naumoski delivered the winning goal, merely made his players more inhibited, clearly fearful of losing a second.

The Czech referee, Pavel Kralovec, was criticised for the awarding of the free kick which brought the goal, but it was not difficult to see how he could be duped by Goran Maznov, the striker deliberately trailing his right foot to create the illusion that he had been tripped by Stephen McManus.

Set up by Goran Pandev and Maznov, the Macedonia captain, Goce Sedloski, hit a powerful drive low to the right of Gordon, who made a terrific save, touching the ball on to the post. Naumoski was one of three home players who could have netted the rebound, the Scottish defenders having remained static as the action unfolded.

While there was merit in the argument that Scotland should have had a penalty kick when James McFadden was tripped, citing the incident as a major factor in the defeat merely deflects from the discomforting truth that the better team not only won, but should have done so by a wider margin.

The appearance of Kris Commons and Shaun Maloney as second-half substitutes gave the Scots a livelier look in the closing stages, but, in the torrid heat of the afternoon, it is reasonable to argue that their sprightliness was slightly exaggerated by the wilting energy of those around them.

Iceland await in Reykjavik on Wednesday and, since they drew 2-2 in Norway soon after the Scots' failure in Skopje, the assignment suddenly assumes the look of another formidable obstacle.


The full article contains 1006 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 08 September 2008 12:03 AM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Scotland's football team
 
1

Teary Ennui,

08/09/2008 00:12:08
A very poor performance especially in the first half. But it's a bit early to press the panic button. We really need a good result on Wednesday though.
2

Der Kaiser,

08/09/2008 00:19:21
#1
Yes...lets turn on Burley after his 1 competitive match losing streak....(sigh).....
Unsurprisingly you agree with the Daily Ranger and I wouldn't be surprised if your feelings towards Burley are simply cos he managed Hearts. Your anti-hearts agenda is old news pundit.

Our goal is second and then getting a decent draw in the play offs. We're not going to finish above Holland. Lets just see how we do against Iceland before we start calling for his head eh?

(Did like this comment...."the people at the Record aren't stupid though"....speaks volumes for you pundit)
3

Helter Skelter,

08/09/2008 00:41:18
2

A bit early tp press the panic button ? If you mean three more days, then you may have a point, but the fact is Scotland were deservedly beaten and the margin of defeat could easily have been worse.

Scotland now face a team that managed two goals and a draw away to Norway, which suggests to me that the unthinkable is very much on the cards...zero points from our first two games.

If that happens, quite simply, Burley will have to go and the sooner the better. We need to be drawing these matches, not getting horsed.
4

Fayneant,

NZ 08/09/2008 00:43:29
Scotland may be short of World class players, but as both Smith and McLeish proved, if they are well organised and filled with self belief the current squad is more than capable of holding their own. The most worrying part of the loss to Macedonia was the fact that Scotland look disorganised and short on ideas. That was the worst performance since the Berti Vogts days, and we can't assume it will get any better against Iceland.
5

Helter Skelter,

08/09/2008 00:51:12
I approved of Burley's appointment at the time....but he has just staggered from one bad situation to another. He lost the respect of the players and their club managers in his first match when he let Rearrangerz walk all over him without a murmur of protest.

He hasn't won a game yet, and the level of performance has been heading steadily south - we were darn lucky to draw with N.Ireland - and it is impossible not to fear the very worst in Iceland.
6

Helter Skelter,

08/09/2008 00:56:01
Barring a miraculous turn around on Wedneday night, discussion will turn to George's successor.

However, the job has been devalued by Walter Smith and Eck McLeish. We are in the market for a manager who has failed at the top level and is looking to kick start his career, and if he gets anywhere, he'll drop Scotland faster than you can say 'David Murray's on the 'phone'.
7

Gorgie's Finest,

08/09/2008 00:56:11
But this is the great George Burley who every non Hearts fan has said would have won us the league if he hadnt been sacked, this is the great George Burley every non Hearts fan was on the side off even without knowing all the facts. Surely these fans cant be turning their backs on him now
8

Helter Skelter,

08/09/2008 00:57:01
Hmmm....Craig Levein ?
9

Gorgie's Finest,

08/09/2008 01:00:26
#8

One of the main problems Scotland managers have had is OF call offs. Its scandelous to see these guys calling off for internationals then turn out to play the next league game, hopefully now though that will stop as far as im aware if you call off for a scotland game you are not allowed to play the game on the saturday.

And who is the main culprits? Rangers...celtic were bad for a while as well but havent been so bad recently
10

Harlem Tam,

08/09/2008 01:06:53
Everyone knows Burley will take over from Smith at Ibrox. He is a Rangers man through and through. He'll be at Ibrox by Christmas.
11

Gorgie's Finest,

08/09/2008 01:15:38
#14

Dont you mean another title to bottle out of?

You didnt win the title for the last 3 years so whats the excuse for call offs then
12

Gorgie's Finest,

08/09/2008 01:40:29
#18

The term bottlers is very fitting for that joke of a team last year, every other fan knows it except you, but there again your not a fan are you? you dont attend the matches.

Your sphincters went big time no other way of putting it and no other excuse for it.
13

Gorgie's Finest,

08/09/2008 01:41:38
"League titles made in Glasgow bottled in Aberdeen"
14

Gorgie's Finest,

08/09/2008 01:51:07
#21

Is it just European games you dont attend then? not that it matters this year now anyway, you wont be playing anymore. Least youll get to see a big team from Glasgow playing in the CL.

That joke of a team the one that beat you into 2nd and has only i less trophy than you (The micky mouse cup) in the time Romanov has been in charge...not that much of a joke team are we? last season was our worse season in decades it was a one off. so what we dont proclaim to be some big super team that Europe considers major, in European terms Rangers are small fry, anytime you have made it to the CL group stages every other team is hoping to draw you. Bit like the Scottish cup really we always hope to draw some wee diddy team from the 3rd division.
15

Daillyman,

08/09/2008 02:00:29
Okay lads the fact is we lost a match and currently sit behind 2 nations who dropped 2 points.

And Macedonia, who if Burley becomes his own man and has the stones to select his own team and system and not listen to the press, with the right team Scotland should beat Macedonia by 2 goals at home.

We were poor in the first half and only slightly better in the 2nd half with the introduction of the 2 wide players Maloney and Commens.

Helter can moan all he wants about WS and Eck but as Scotlands boss's employed a 4-5-1 that kept them close in games and allowed the team to pull of a couple of shock results.

At this level all that matters is results, Burley under media pressure has forced himself to play 4-4-2, and so far has achieved nothing results wise.

We go Iceland which will be a tough match, I say go with 4-5-1, a system I may add the players were comfortable in and knew their roles.

Gordon
Alexander McManus Caldwell Naismith
Commens Brown Fletcher Robson Maloney
McFadden
16

Gorgie's Finest,

08/09/2008 02:24:53
#23 Pundit

Rangers havnt spent 17.5million though have they?

how much did u get for cuellar? and the otheres you sold?

Take those fees away and thats how much you really spent, ws only spent the cuellar money to appease the knuckle draggers who were wanting him out. Thats FACTS. Celtic have spent more in reality
17

Vladimir from Macedonia,

Macedonia 08/09/2008 03:26:49
Hello my friends I'm from Macedonia and I like to tell you just wana tell you guys that,althou we have won the game but you've winners to you've showed us how to realy have a team spirit, you're winners becaouse even thou you've lost the game all those Shcotish who we have met here in Skopje were still proud and all of the time we have dring and sing together . A have read some of that English guy that leafed at you, but he lafs at you only beacouse he is still in pain for that time they didn't go to the chanmpionship because of us.And when they lose the game here in Skopje they we're so losers that they did't want to shake hands with ouer pleyers. Sory if my Enflish is bad, and once agan you are the BEST awdience with a great team spirit and big heart and moust impirtant of all big taste for beer.:) CHeers for all those meids we have met here and all of you in Scotland and good luck with Icland.

18

Keith Mac,

Edinburgh 08/09/2008 04:08:08
"but it was not difficult to see how he could be duped by Goran Maznov, the striker deliberately trailing his right foot to create the illusion that he had been tripped by Stephen McManus". So, on one hand the Scotsman slates Burley for the defeat then, on the other, slags off the referee for not seeing the deliberate dive which resulted in the goal which cost us an away draw! Which is it Scotsman? Typical Scottish Press - two faced rabble-rousing reporting with ne'er a constructive comment in sight.
19

billylion67,

08/09/2008 06:30:18
What happened to Kenny Miller on Saturday? normally chases every ball with his pace, his game is in their tackling and working opposition defences, in the first half you couldn't have found kenny miller with radar. Well done Kenny, although it was the new Scotland's managers tactics and instructions to follow not the old regime, im sure watty and co was pleased that no need to wash your strip, Kenny you should have been hooked at half-time,
20

billylion67,

08/09/2008 06:39:49
I will be interesting the next time St Mirren visit Celtic park have little possession, 10 men behind the ball, rarely venture up the park, and lose a goal from a disputed corner or free kick, and see this conclusion from Glen Gibbons

While there was merit in the argument that Scotland should have had a penalty kick when James McFadden was tripped, citing the incident as a major factor in the defeat merely deflects from the discomforting truth that the better team not only won, but should have done so by a wider margin
21

billylion67,

08/09/2008 06:44:32
As for Scotland, it is quite clear that Burley has allowed Rangers to walk all over him, i do sympathise that if he was to attempt to remedy this situation with constant withdrawals and no effort from Rangers players (kenny miller Saturday) he would be under pressure from Smith and Peat, not to pursue any conflict with Rangers over player withdrawals, but, the fact is you cant motivate other players when THEY know the truth.
22

,

08/09/2008 06:54:20
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23

arthurscross,

08/09/2008 07:19:49
#37 , #38 , #39
Are these 3 posts not a disgrace with the usual bigotted culprits at the fore.
Why don't the Celtic players withdraw with alleged injuries like the so called Rangers Superstars, Thomson being the best example.
24

arthurscross,

08/09/2008 07:25:00
#34
"Burley's demotivation management style has even taken the running out of Miller.

Burley thought he was playing for a draw, or a wee 1-0 win. In the end his tactics were muddled. The players were cautious about being too defensive, and cautious about pushing forward.

A tactical blunder of the highest quality.

How thick can one be? Burley has caused Miller not to run!

25

arthurscross,

08/09/2008 07:27:38
#39
"I would have more respect for Burley if he had tried out a team with no Celtic players in it.

Tehn at least he would get the support of the fans."

What kind of fans are we talking about? The ones who caused the trouble in Manchester?
26

,

08/09/2008 07:31:38
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27

,

08/09/2008 07:38:58
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28

Al-Mac,

08/09/2008 07:55:39
Rangers fans pretending they give a hoot about the Sotland side.
Do you think we’re stupid?
You’ve no interest in anything but your own rancid “culture” and joke of a team that the whole of Europe was shaking their collective heads at last season.
But think of the records set:
European finalists with:
Least goals scored…
Least wins in open play…
First finalists to go out in the first round of the next season.
Which saved the authorities the bother of banning you as they did the last time your disgusting fans disgraced themselves at a final.
So a silver lining in the end I suppose.
29

Keithie Boy,

St Albans 08/09/2008 07:57:58
Calm down chaps. We were equally hopeless against Georgia and then almost beat the Italians if it hadn't been for some shocking refereeing. I'm pretty sure you all play a great game from the sofa but if we beat Iceland then you'll all flip back to "everything's fine". Relax. It was away from home and we lost. If we win all the home games and win some away then we're in. So relax. They can play better, and they will. Flame away.
30

,

08/09/2008 08:00:13
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31

Down with everything,

08/09/2008 08:09:43
Typical to see another thread Hi-jacked by equally narrow minded followers of the OF, to be honest, the usual suspects are probably more narrow minded.

I am sure that filling the national team with 11 players from either side of the divide would do much so why not get behind the team regardless of who plays.

I am starting to think that there is some kind of media witch hunt brewing as the reporting that i have read on the match has been very critical of Burley, unneccessarily so in my opinion.

Trainer certainly seems to have something against him listening to Radio Scotland on Saturday, hinting at player rebellions etc

It would be so good to be able to go to a major finals again and i think that any negativity is a bad thing which adds pressure to the players / management team who are only too aware of our recent failings and are trying their utmost to qualify once more.

If you can't think of anything positive to say then p155 off and do your moaning elsewhere.

Mon the Scots
GIRUY Iceland
32

Down with everything,

08/09/2008 08:10:23
*not
33

Al-Mac,

08/09/2008 08:15:57
Keithie Boy
I was going to point this out myself.
We beat Lithuania 1-2 away in our opening game and what good did that do?
We got beat by Georgia away through MacLeish's naivety, and the absence of some key players. Maloney?
Also, if it wasn't for a lucky Beattie breakaway sclaffed shot we wouldn't have beaten Georgia at Hampden.
The dafties on this site won't remember this though as their only interest at the time was that it was ex-Rangers managers and a few Rangers players in the team.
34

,

08/09/2008 08:16:01
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35

Down with everything,

08/09/2008 08:21:14

and i suppose you have spoken with the 'some players' that you refer to?

Who are you referring to?

would be nice to know who doesn't want to represent their country.

Anyone in that position should be deported!!

don't deserve to be wearing the jersey in the first place.
36

,

08/09/2008 08:25:13
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37

Down with everything,

08/09/2008 08:25:54

#58

and you are just a nob.

38

WALTER SMITHS BLUE AND WHITE ARMY #1....,

UK 08/09/2008 08:26:19
Why all the doom and gloom? As McFadden the superstar points out, all we have to do is win the next 7 games.
Piece of p'ss.
39

,

08/09/2008 08:27:13
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40

,

08/09/2008 08:30:24
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41

Down with everything,

08/09/2008 08:32:05

So what does he (Traynor) have against the man.

When he was sacked by Hearts, he was a hero trying to ply his trade under difficult circumstances, now he is public enemy No 1.

The levels of hypocrisy are beyond me, they really are.
42

Away down In Gorgie (2),

08/09/2008 08:32:09
Great win for Lithuania.

Mon the Liths.

Had £20 on Mac's at 2-1.

43

Down with everything,

08/09/2008 08:33:12

No need to justify name calling to one of the bigot-brothers
44

PJ Walker,

East Lotian 08/09/2008 08:33:43
For Goodness sake. At a time when the country should be uniting behind the national squad, all we get is inter- tribal bickering!
What chance is there for what is, at best, a very mediocre squad, with all this small minded nonsense going on?
45

Al-Mac,

08/09/2008 08:34:44
"You are a sad bigoted hypocrite! The Sellic players are not up tae the job ... why can`t you just admit it! Oh! that`s right you got O level denial!"

The above is an example of what the writer considers "Great debating skills" after, (wrongly), judging the addressee a Celtic supporter.
The addressee had not in fact mentioned Celtic once.
46

Jambo-ree,

08/09/2008 08:40:16
#52 - There's not point in arguing with the likes of BTO and Punt!t. They are the very epitomy of true bigotry defined as:

"A bigot is a person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own, and bigotry is the corresponding state of mind. Bigot is often used as a pejorative term against a person who is obstinately devoted to prejudices even when these views are challenged or proven to be false or not universally applicable or acceptable." i.e. not restricted to religion.

Meanwhile back at the footie, if we cannot play decently against the likes of Macedonia then to be honest I'd rather we didn't go to South Africa. Having been choked at our failure to qualify for Euro 2008 I actually spent the time of tournament thanking god we didn't qualify as it would have been a complete embarrassment so much better than us were all the other sides.

Not sure where we go from here as there simply are not the quality players around we used to have and that's a grass roots issue.

Not too many on here today slagging Craig off for not beint a £9m goalie though. Would have been a lot worse without him.

47

,

08/09/2008 08:40:18
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48

It's me!,

08/09/2008 08:42:00
It doesn't take much for the Glasgow gruesome to contaminate an article about the Scottish football team, does it?
49

huggs,

08/09/2008 08:42:20
Anyone heard the names of the players refusing to play under Burley again?
Or has the same plick made a james hunt of himself yet again by refusing to back up his drivel
50

,

08/09/2008 08:43:21
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51

Down with everything,

08/09/2008 08:43:41

#71

written where, or said where.

you are havering again.

if not, prove it.
52

huggs,

08/09/2008 08:44:48
BTO Name the names then
53

The Equaliser,

08/09/2008 08:45:34
I am sorry to say that we can't have a constructive discussion on here without the sniping at Rangers. Kevin Thomson was sent home with a bad achiles injury and Weir withdrew with an injury(should never have been in squad). We already know Miller and McFadzean are not effective together so what has that got ot do with Rangers? It is down to the manager.
The fact is that without Barry Ferguson in midfield we lack any composure. Fletcher, Brown etc have been a pale shadow since Ferguson has been out while Paul Hartley seems to have really gone to seed for both club and country.
I do not think all is lost at this stage but we must win in Iceland to have any chance.
54

,

08/09/2008 08:45:51
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55

Down with everything,

08/09/2008 08:47:14

BTO,

I am trying to see what your point is with regard to being on the scotsman threads.

All i can see is that you want to put everyone and everything non rankers down.

nothing positive to say you sad little hate filled man.

56

The Equaliser,

08/09/2008 08:47:51
68 Al-mac

Is it not Celtic and their fans who are constantly in denial about many things?
57

Down with everything,

08/09/2008 08:48:16
#80
and you take that to mean hate me whatever the result???

or we are definitely going to lose???

your logic is as flawed as your personality



58

huggs,

08/09/2008 08:48:27
BTO why ignore the question
You stated certain players will refuse to play again under Burley i am asking you to name them?
Can you, or did you just make it up again?
Simple question
59

Jambo-ree,

08/09/2008 08:50:54
#76 Nope, down of Wikipedia actualy. Truth hurts, eh? And nope again, I can stand my ground in an argument but if I'm proven to be wrong then I'll agree I was wrong and that's the difference. In you own case it's Rangers = right, everything and everyone else = wrong, no exception, no middle ground. Don't you realise how much of an idiot you make yourself look?

Having made my point, subject closed.

60

Gusto,

08/09/2008 08:51:24
I think Glen Gibberish did not watch the match. The free-kick from which was scored should never have been given, was stopped but the celtic defence did not react (again) - and we were not given two obvious penalties. Burley did express his concerns about the ref weeks ago and he was right. The second half was all Scotland, even in that heat.
61

Down with everything,

08/09/2008 08:52:47
#85
"no exceptions, no middle ground"

was that not Obi-wans description of the dark side.

Only dealing in absolutes??

wonder if BTO is Darth Ranger???




62

huggs,

08/09/2008 08:54:37
#86 So it was Celtic in defence when we lose a goal but Scotland when they played well in the second half
You any idea how pathetic and childish that sounds
63

,

08/09/2008 08:58:47
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64

Down with everything,

08/09/2008 09:00:01

Huggs, what you have to ask yourself is that had the defence kept a clean sheet, would the same people be praising their efforts?

I don't think so.

65

Johnny Jambo,

08/09/2008 09:00:42
What gives Scotland the god given right to beat teams like Macedonia, this is the same team that beat Croatia and drew with England in the Euro campaign recently.

For Scotland to go to Macedonia was always a tough game and for anyone to think that 6 points or even 4 points from the opening two games was a possibility was ludicrous. George Burley has a target of 17 points from the campaign and that is what is important. If we get that an qualify we will all be singing thepraises of Burley and Butcher if we get that and dont qualify well at least we reached our target so we are improving.

Give the team a chance, at the end of the day we don't have the quality in depth to be a really successful team. We will always be a team of nearly men.
66

huggs,

08/09/2008 09:02:25
BTO why are you ignoring the question
Back up what you say or stop posting totall nonsense

Name the names or admit you just made it up
67

huggs,

08/09/2008 09:08:40
BTO by your silence i will just take it you made all that up about people refusing to play again
Yet again i thank you for making a howling james hunt of yourself and proving to the decent non biggoted posters on this thread what an @rse you really are
68

,

08/09/2008 09:08:41
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69

Down with everything,

08/09/2008 09:09:32
#96

deluded fool, you are not and never have, nor will be close to anyone in the know about scottish football.


If you were, you would post meaningful, inciteful statements.

Not the pash that you constantly spout.

70

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 08/09/2008 09:10:13
If we had bean independunt we would have gubbed Macedonia .
71

huggs,

08/09/2008 09:13:20
#98 You really must read the posts
Unhappy at playing
Refusal to play
Can you spot the difference ?
Take your time now no rush and think about it before you answer

Gums a rest surely you mean fingers dont you
Again thicko take your time no rush
72

huggs,

08/09/2008 09:16:02
#98 Again read did i ask James Traynor ?
Think about it
Did he state on here that players would refuse to play?
Was it BTO and dont take too much time Mcdonald litter patrol is missing a member

Run along now
73

WALTER SMITHS BLUE AND WHITE ARMY #1....,

UK 08/09/2008 09:16:58
Facts are facts.
The celtic defence were totally garbage against Rangers.
The celtic defence were totally garbage against Macedonia.
Thoses are the facts.
If celtic fans wish to deny those facts, why is anyone surprised?
The next thing they'll be telling us is the big man knew nothing about it....
74

Who?,

08/09/2008 09:17:18
There are a number of things that really worry me regarding the reaction to this defeat.

Firstly is the glasgow based redtop media. On the day that GB was appointed people like murdo Mcleod, charlie Nicholas and Andy "please believe i'm a real pundit" Walker were marking his cards- the guy had only been in the job less than a day! Ever since then guys like this and their paymasters have been making proclemation after proclemation (look it up in the dictionary pundit) of doom and disaster- how patriotic!

Secondly the over-reaction to some fairly decent results have been awful.
1. A very good credible draw with croatia who beat germany (the finalists) during the group stages of euro 2008 and if they had kept their focus for the final 10 seconds of injury time they would have made the semi finals, beat england home and away during the qualifiers.

2. A defeat in the czech republic a week before euro 2008- if their goalkeeper hadn't dropped the ball at the feat of the turkish striker they would have progressed from their group and probably made the semi's.

3. A draw to a NI team who packed midfield and defence and who's sole purpose was to counter attack. To qualify from this group scotland needed practice at breaking teams down. In some ways that game provided an invaluable lesson from which things were learned.

This latest defeat is a soar one. However its the gfa who are to blame for most of this. Why have Holland at home in the last game? I get the feeling some weigi had a wet dream about scotland and holland playing a winner takes all game for qualification. In order to fulfil that dum fantasy gordon smith and the gfa walked into this ambush of a game with their eyes wide open. The macedonians knew about the ground reconstruction and knew it was going to be a afternoon kick off in 25-35 degrees of heat- yet the gfa though that with no floodlights they could still play the game at night.

Incredible to think that these people run football in this c
75

Addie,

08/09/2008 09:17:35
Over the last couple of years, Scotland has played a more defensive game which has frustrated the opposition and has worked out well. I can see that Burley is trying to focus on attacking football but the players are not up tot he job at that level. We need to get back to basics, sort out the defence and play the players in their prefered position - ie Brown in a central role - not on the right.

I also think its too early for calling for the head of Burley. He can still do the job for us, and please can we stop the bickering about each others clubs on this thread and get behind the National team?
76

Johnny Jambo,

08/09/2008 09:18:29
#98, Why did he (James Traynor) not just name the names instead of make a statement that we know will never be backed up. No player will openly say he is unhappy playing under a certain manager whilst there is a chance he will still be selected.

George Burley is a proven Manager at a number of clubs and deserves his chance. The problem with Scotland is that we just don't have the quality of player and the rest of the world is fast catching up on the lesser lights.
I am not so sure about Terry Butcher though, he has had very limited success in the club jobs he has had and has in fact taken a number of his clubs backwards.

Did anyone really expect Scotland just to turn up in Macedonia and get the 3 points, they are no mugs, they beat Croatia and drew with England recently in the Euro Campaign.
77

Voice of reason,

EDINBURGH 08/09/2008 09:20:40
Yes 106 but we are a world class side , we shoulda gubbed them .
78

Addie,

08/09/2008 09:27:08
#106 If im being honest, I thought we would get a draw. However if we want to qualify for the World Cup, we should be picking up 3 points against them. We do have the players to get the 3 points, but I dont think we played the right tactics.
79

Down with everything,

08/09/2008 09:27:49
107
and luckily for you, so is your persona.

Otherwise everyone would know that you are a complete fool and someone would point out the sad and lonely existence that you lead.

80

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08/09/2008 09:27:57
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81

Johnny Jambo,

08/09/2008 09:29:15
#109 bto - you are right we need to respect people when they give information to members of the press, however, if those players really feel that way then why don't they come out in the open with it instead of causing friction within the team camp which I suggest is what will happen if it is true.

However because of this confidentiality thing, any member of the press can make statements like that knowing that it will never come into the public domain just to stirr it a bit.

I suggest that if this is true it will remain in Traynor's head until the three players (or more) retire from international football which helps no one.
82

huggs,

08/09/2008 09:32:51
Eveyone on here knows BTO is full of nonsense look at his staements after things come out in the press he can say he knew about them beforehand but was unable to divulge
Ok make things up dont back them up we will all beleive you










83

,

08/09/2008 09:33:57
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84

Jambo-ree,

08/09/2008 09:38:31
#113 - It's all to do with the nudge-nudge, wink-wink subterfuge that goes on within our national game. People have set agendas and don't really care about how they set out to achieve them. As has been said many times on this thread "it's ony the result that matters" to these people. Big ambitions but small minds.

85

,

08/09/2008 09:39:18
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,

08/09/2008 09:41:20
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Johnny Jambo,

08/09/2008 09:45:23
#112 - yes I think we all hoped we could pick someting up from Macedonia but do we really have the class to do it, I honestly don't think we do.

I don't think it matters which manager we have they are all much of a muchness and I agree re Murdo, Chas et all, they should get off the managers back and back him.

We have good players but not great players, in the past we always had two or three top class players (how many scots get a regular game in the English premier league today??) and the team then filled up with the good players, today we don't have any top class players and the good players are not as good as those we had in the past, so that means over all we are a poorer national team whilst those around us are improving.
88

Johnny Jambo,

08/09/2008 09:48:57
#119 bto - I have no reason to doubt what you say as I don't even know you, but in what capacity would you have spent time with the Scottish Squad. I am asking because I really have no idea what the make up of the party would be and who or what would be included.
89

Skiver,

08/09/2008 09:49:13
Saturday was pretty bad, especially in the 1st half, but what Scotland manager hasn't had a result like this?

Berti had a lot of results like this.
McLeish - Georgia - worse than Saturday.
Smith - Belarus at home - worse than Saturday.

The list goes on. Puts us under a bit of pressure for Iceland and hopefully they'll get the win there.

The Daily Rearranger says today that Lee McCulloch won't play for Scotland again under Burley. That's no great loss cos he's just a hammerthrower.
90

N B,

08/09/2008 09:49:54
Oh dear. Oh dear, oh dear...

I will give you five reasons why Scotland were gubbed by Eurodiddies Macedonia, they are;
Wee Broon - rotten in the SPL, rotten against Eurokeek.
Hartley - on what planet is this dirty wee fouling B international class?
Malooney - 2 years of reserve team football plus one thrashing by the famous Glasgow Rangers and he is ready for the international scene?
Gary Cannavarowell - Better than the others, but big Kirk could have done a better job.
Steve McAnus - How this hoofer even gets a game for Celtic I will never know.
91

,

08/09/2008 09:52:43
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,

08/09/2008 09:57:44
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Johnny Jambo,

08/09/2008 09:58:43
#122 - Lee McCulloch was never international class in any case (and thats saying something in Scottish football), does it give his reasons in the paper, I have not seen the article so cannot comment. But it smacks of I was not selected so I am throwing my toys out of the pram anyway.
94

Down with everything,

08/09/2008 09:58:46
#125
I cannot believe what i am reading.

Are we really supposed to swallow this complete fantasy?

please get a life

95

Johnny Jambo,

08/09/2008 09:59:59
#125 bto - thanks for explaining, I can see the need for such people within the squad.
96

,

08/09/2008 10:00:40
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97

Addie,

08/09/2008 10:03:00
#125 So you were a dogsbody??? The wee skivvie that was sent out to get Bertie a BLT!! You're bragging about this???
98

Skiver,

08/09/2008 10:09:27
126 - I fail to see how reading through a bunch of posts which are mostly the work of bitter & blinkered Rangers and Celtic fans will tell me anything about the Scottish media. The Record's agenda is pretty obvious.

As for McCulloch, supposedly he has "lost faith" with Burley but Johnny Jambo I think you are right. He's not happy at being bumped out of the squad. The story is on the Record website by the way.
99

Down with everything,

08/09/2008 10:10:08

I am sure that the press liaison officer would also go out for the bacon butties / newspapers / hookers /drugs

Is this not the norm for press liaison?

100

Keyboard supporter,

08/09/2008 10:11:45
Saturday (especially 1st half) was pretty poor but most people would have picked the same team so don't seed the logic in picking on Burley.

On a more positive note McCulloch looks like he's chucking Scotland (according to the Beanos for the unenlightened) so every cloud and all that ....
101

,

08/09/2008 10:13:18
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102

,

08/09/2008 10:15:36
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103

Addie,

08/09/2008 10:18:52
#138 So if you know so much about football, why do you write rubbish?

Need to know - you certainly do.
104

Indigo Nightlight,

08/09/2008 10:20:21
The Record's agenda can be easily explained by the fact they publically backed Souness and didn't get the man that they (but barely any of teh Scotland support) wanted.

The vindictiveness of the campaign against Burley is farcical to be honest. Sure it was a bad result, and a poor performance in the 1st half but that's all it was. No worse then those produced in Georgia under McLeish (in fact a far bett