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Gretna FC 'just hours from oblivion'

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Published Date: 13 March 2008
GRETNA Football Club are just hours away from going out of business after the club's administrator made a deadline of today for a sum of £30,000 to be injected into the club.
Gretna's predicament worsened dramatically yesterday and a proposed payment from the Scottish Premier League was put on hold. Without an injection of cash today – required to cover the club's wage bill for a week and also transportation and accommodation costs for this weekend's fixture at Aberdeen – Gretna will become the first Scottish top-league side since Third Lanark to fold.

The consequence will be to throw the SPL into disarray. Gretna's results will be wiped from the records and the league standings recalculated. It will prove a spectacular fall for Gretna, whose rapid rise owed everything to the backing of owner Brooks Mileson. His recent ill-health and apparent cutting of ties with the club has left the Dumfriesshire side in crisis.

David Elliot, the appointed administrator, confirmed SPL officials have offered a £100,000 advance on money due to Gretna at the end of the season. However, SPL secretary Iain Blair requires a commitment to give to the SPL board that Gretna can complete their season's fixtures.

"Iain Blair has spoken with the administrators and reviewed the prospects for the club," said an SPL spokesman. "It was confirmed to us that Gretna had been put into administration, and obviously that triggered the ten point penalty and the player embargo. In terms of the possible advancement of fees, we indicated to the administrator we could look to advance fees on the basis that we received assurances that Gretna's fixtures were fulfilled.

"That is something that is up to the administrator now," he continued. "The ball's in their court on that front. The club is only entitled to the money if they complete the season."

The sounds emitted from Gretna yesterday made this promise seem impossible to give. Elliot stressed how desperate the situation had become. He said the club owed £350,000 to the Inland Revenue, who last week told Gretna they would be taking court action on Monday of this week to have the club put into liquidation. Elliot also said two former managers had put in claims of £800,000 and £100,000 for breach of contract. There is also hire-purchase debt outstanding on cars and cash owed to groundshare landlords, Motherwell, whose Fir Park home they are sharing this season

"This is critical, this is not a bluff," said Elliot at a press conference yesterday. "Gretna are potentially 24 hours from oblivion. I would have to stop the club. There is intense pressure from creditors. I anticipate many other claims." Most pressing is the need for £30,000 to cover this week's expenses, with the team scheduled to make one of their longest away trips this Saturday.

"The club has a fixture on Saturday in Aberdeen and needs funds for transportation, accommodation and wages," Elliot pointed out. "We are looking for a scenario where emergency funding can be put in place to allow time for more medium to long-term funding to be obtained. To fulfil that fixture on Saturday, I need to be able to secure emergency funding to pay the wages and to secure transportation and an overnight stay. I estimate that would be £30,000.

"At this point in time, I don't have it," he continued. "I would not allow people to work and not be paid their wages. If I can't see that they can be paid their wages then I would have to stop.I cannot allow the position to get worse."

Elliot revealed he had been in talks with one possible funding source, but would not confirm whether this was the SPL. Finding a sum of £30,000 is critical to the club's chances of being handed a cash advance from the SPL.

"The football authorities are saying to me that they will advance those monies at 48 hours notice provided we can show that the club can fulfil its fixtures until the end of the season," Elliot said.

"My main concern is that we run out of time. The first step is emergency funding for Saturday to be in my bank account by lunchtime tomorrow. That gives us the window of opportunity to go to the league and say: 'The amount we require, we believe, until the end of the season, is this, can you cover that?' And if they can, they say they will have the funds to me within 48 hours. My main concern is whether we can get past lunchtime tomorrow."

Although the players survived yesterday's first day of official administration Graeme Muir has resigned his post as chief executive. Surprisingly, he said he had no regrets about the Gretna adventure.

"It's been a great experience," he said. "And I have a lot of respect for Brooks Mileson. "Things don't last forever and the history books will show the success he had."

GRETNA CRISIS Q&A

Q: Can Gretna survive?

A: Only if someone comes up with £30,000 today to cover this week's wages and travel costs.

Q: Why has the club suddenly run out of money?

A: Funds from owner Brooks Mileson have been stopped, and costs are a huge multiple of revenue.

Q: Why has Mileson pulled the plug on the club he has so often said he loves?

A: He has not said, but it has been suggested that his financial position is not as strong as it once was.

Q: Is Mileson's illness the problem?

A: Not entirely. He is out of hospital, and his son is in daily contact with Gretna.

Q: Who do the club owe money to?

A: Principally, there is an outstanding sum of £350,000 due to the Inland Revenue. Two former managers are claiming £900,000 and £100,000 for breach of contract.

Q: Will these debts be settled?

A: Not in full. The club has so few assets that the administrator will have to try to strike a deal with creditors to accept less than they are owed.

Q: Can the SPL come to the rescue?

A: Yes, but league officials are concerned that any money loaned will be wasted if the club goes out of business before the end of the season.

Q: Is there any chance of a happy ending?

A: No.


The full article contains 1070 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 13 March 2008 3:29 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Gretna FC
 
1

J J MAROONER,

13/03/2008 00:10:31
That looks to be that then, I read in other forums that Mileson is in hiding, others say he is desperately ill, wonder what the truth is - anybody know?
2

Manila,

Makati 13/03/2008 05:11:27
Is Mileson's fortune not in property? If so then I would guess it's not worth nearly as much as before and certainly wont be increasing in value.

Fun while it lasted but always doomed to failure. How could they ever hope to build a sustainable fan base for that level of football.

Good news for Dundee United's European qualifation propects: I understand that all points won against Greta by SPL teams will be null and void.
3

SouthSideHibs,

13/03/2008 06:39:04
#2, points 'may' be removed if Gretna disappear, it's not a foregone conclusion.

Obviously the Jumbos and the Arabs will be the main beneficiaries if the ESSPEEHELL do decide to make all their matches 'null and void'.

Frankly it's a shame, but also a disgrace that a Club can be run by one man who suddenly decides that he can no longer
afford to bankroll them due to their level of debt and limited income.
4

P'd off with the lies,

Edinburgh 13/03/2008 06:53:57
Overnight stay? If they're cash strapped then just bus it up early in the morning!
5

Starchief,

13/03/2008 07:12:56
So, they're giving the club less than a day to raise 30,000??? That's not enough time to even ask possible benefactors. Why not a week?

Something rotten in the state of Gretna here...
6

Cathy,

Livingston 13/03/2008 08:02:20
*3*
You should read the article again!
It quite clearly states "Gretna's results WILL be wiped from the records and the league standings recalculated" Seems clear enough!
7

Lion-O "Lord Of The ThunderCats,

13/03/2008 08:11:33
#6 Lets face it, the SPL will decide what they want to do with points gained by other clubs against Gretna based upon what the OF tell them. It won't matter what is in the SPL rules, Gold and Blair will still let the tail wag the dog.

If enough SPL clubs want the points to stay then can you really see Gold & Blair having the BACKBONE to actually implement their rules? I can't.
8

Anglo Jambo,

Chorley 13/03/2008 08:12:40
The main benefactors are St Mirren, Dundee United who lose 3 points, Aberdeen and Killie lose 4 Hearts 5.
After points deducted Rangers and Celtic 59, Dundee United 43, M'well 37, Hibs 35, Falkirk 31, Hearts 31, Aberdeen 30, Inverness 27, ST Miren and Killie.
9

HBOS Customer,

KILMARNOCK 13/03/2008 08:13:09
Rule H5 of SPL states that if a club fails to fulfill its fixtures its record MAY be expunged from the league and the number of relegation places SHALL be reduced accordingly.

Lots of journos (Broadfoot, Traynor etc) claiming another team would have to be relegated but that's not the case as per SPL rules
10

The Accountant,

Fife 13/03/2008 08:15:21
#5 - The Administrator would be breaking the law if he ordered services that the club cannot pay for - the £30k is just the Administrator doing his job. Once in administration, everything ordered must be paid for.

Its bye bye Gretna
11

Anglo Jambo,

Chorley 13/03/2008 08:18:08
8*

St Mirren and Killie 24. I can\t see anyone being relegated as only one team will be promoted anyway.
12

Nell,

The Preservation Hall 13/03/2008 08:19:00
Anybody know how the wiping of points would affect the top of the league position?
The comments are going to be great on here if all of a sudden the green side of the OF take top spot from the blue side because of this.
13

Anglo Jambo,

Chorley 13/03/2008 08:25:23
12*

Read 10*
14

,

13/03/2008 08:29:50
Comment Removed By Administrator
Reason:
15

Anglo Jambo,

Chorley 13/03/2008 08:40:46
12*

Sorry read 8 and 11

14*

Actually StMiren Killie and Aberdeen are bigger benefactors than Hearts.
16

Nell,

The Preservation Hall 13/03/2008 08:47:26
No. 15:- Thanks, I take it the Rangers fans are busy with UEFA cup threads. They obviously dont realise that this could affect the final league positions.
17

Cathcart Boy,

London 13/03/2008 08:54:39
On the points question I know the rules say that the Gretna results will be wiped out and places recalculated accordingly.
Surely it's fairer to award three points to Gretna's opponents in respect of each unfulfilled fixture.
18

Indigo Nightlight,

13/03/2008 08:59:29
#17

I don't see how it can possibly be fairer to give a team 3 points for a game they haven't played.

It's a farcical situation however it pans out.
19

Anglo Jambo,

Chorley 13/03/2008 08:59:34
These are games to be played, no date yet for Motherwell Rangers match. Do well fans still feel confident of European football.

Saturday, 15 March 2008 Time Res Att Tab TV
Motherwell v Celtic 12:30
Aberdeen v Gretna 15:00
Hibernian v Kilmarnock 15:00
Inverness CT v Falkirk 15:00
Motherwell v Rangers 15:00 P-P
St Mirren v Hearts 15:00

Saturday, 22 March 2008 Time Res Att Tab TV
Dundee United v Motherwell 12:30
Aberdeen v St Mirren 15:00
Hearts v Falkirk 15:00
Kilmarnock v Inverness CT 15:00
Rangers v Hibernian 15:00

Sunday, 23 March 2008 Time Res Att Tab TV
Gretna v Celtic 14:00

Saturday, 29 March 2008 Time Res Att Tab TV
Rangers v Celtic 12:30
Falkirk v Kilmarnock 15:00
Hearts v Dundee United 15:00
Inverness CT v Aberdeen 15:00
Motherwell v Hibernian 15:00
St Mirren v Gretna 15:00

20

Anglo Jambo,

Chorley 13/03/2008 09:01:44
19*

To Carry on

Saturday, 5 April 2008 Time Res Att Tab TV
Aberdeen v Falkirk 15:00
Celtic v Motherwell 15:00
Gretna v Inverness CT 15:00
Hibernian v St Mirren 15:00
Kilmarnock v Hearts 15:00

Sunday, 6 April 2008 Time Res Att Tab TV
Dundee United v Rangers 14:00

21

Mr I Raitt,

of Leith 13/03/2008 09:09:05
Aha #16, what you forget is that #8's recalculated points table doesn't show matches played, so even though the Teddy Bears are shown as being on the same points as Celtic, they will have played one fewer game after Gretna are taken out of the equation. Gers for the quadruple.
22

Johnny G,

13/03/2008 09:12:03
21. Two fewer. Rangers already have a game in hand.
23

Anglo Jambo,

Chorley 13/03/2008 09:14:09
Were SPL wrong in allowing Gretna in to the SPL. To agree to them playing home matches at Fir Park, was ridiculous. What did they expect thousands making a round trip to Fir Park of 150 miles once a fortnight. They were obviously expecting local support too. The size of the town can't support an SPL side. When they won first division they were already faltering and losing players. If they hadn't scored that last goal last game last season, none of us would be writing these comments
24

Anglo Jambo,

Chorley 13/03/2008 09:16:15
Pos Name P W D L F A GD PTS
1 Rangers 27 22 2 3 67 20 47 68
2 Celtic 28 20 5 3 66 19 47 65
3 Dundee United 30 13 7 10 43 34 9 46
4 Motherwell 28 14 4 10 39 33 6 46
5 Hibernian 29 12 8 9 42 35 7 44
6 Falkirk 29 10 7 12 38 42 -4 37
7 Hearts 29 10 6 13 40 47 -7 36
8 Aberdeen 29 9 7 13 33 48 -15 34
9 Inverness CT 29 10 3 16 35 48 -13 33
10 Kilmarnock 29 7 7 15 30 43 -13 28
11 St Mirren 27 7 6 14 18 44 -26 27
12 Gretna 28 4 4 20 28 66 -38 6
Gretna have been deducted 10 points for entering into ad
25

Anglo Jambo,

Chorley 13/03/2008 09:18:05
24*

that is before points deducted but will tell you number of games played
26

carrottop,

Dumfries 13/03/2008 09:18:35
If Gretna do fold then I hope a lot more thought is put into their replacement than there was in accepting them. Would like to see a team in from Oban or Galashiels as these are the two populated areas that have nothing. Was it the lure of the Mileson money and the good old boys network that got Gretna in in the first place because it certainly was not common sense.
27

Gordonzola,

WEST LOTHIAN 13/03/2008 09:21:52
#17 It depends on the rules of the SPL.

Other leagues go on a percentage of games played. If say less than 50% of fixtures played then all results are cancalled. If more than 50% of games played then the unfulfilled fixtures are awarded as 1-0 wins.

I am not sure if the SPL rules address the matter of a club folding during a season. But I expect they will do very shortly.
28

Anglo Jambo,

Chorley 13/03/2008 09:23:03
If points are taken away does this also mean the goals for and against Gretna won't count either, I suppose it does, and will it affect the positions end of season.
29

Prof,

13/03/2008 09:25:19
All my Hibbie friends will be interested in this.
When (not if) Gretna go bust today, all matches played against Gretna are automatically wiped out. As a result the gap between Hibs and Hearts will be reduced from 8 points to 4. Similarly the gap between Dundee Utd and Hibs instead of 2 points will increase to 8 points.
30

Gorgie's Finest,

13/03/2008 09:29:28
#21
Celtic drawing with Dundee Utd last night has helped you, had they won last night and the table recalculated then they would be 2 points in front with Rangers having 2 games in hand, one of those extra games would be the week celtic would have been due to play gretna in which rangers play hibs that week, so the points arent in the bag as they say.

As for main benefactors the ones to benefit most will be dundee utd. then Hearts well only be 4 points behind Hibs they will have a game in hand but have to play celtic twice and rangers once and of course the derby which could decide who goes to europe between the two.

I wonder if the SPL/SFA will re-arrange the last edinburgh derby accordingly since it could be a europe decider like they want to rearange the OF game because it could be a league decider.
31

Gorgie's Finest,

13/03/2008 09:30:44
#30 corrected...

Sorry Hibs have Rangers to play twice anc celtic once apologies
32

We love fitba,

google! 13/03/2008 09:40:03
C'mon Jambos, surely you can put up the necessary £30k? I mean, Gretna are practically family... you certainly seemed keen to adopt them a couple of years ago.

Romanov could front the cash and just add it to your debt - a drop in the ocean, really, and you'll never have to pay it anyhow because Hearts is just one element in a group of successful investment companies etc and so on.

Whaddya say?
33

Gorgie's Finest,

13/03/2008 09:40:26
#27

The rules state all points earned from gretna will be deducted from the teams that have earned those points, thats it m8, nothin to do with 50% played etc and points being added, However the rules also state that if a club goes to the wall another club MUST be relegated, this would mean Killie/St Mirren and then Aberdeen/ICT/Hearts/Falkirk and even Hibs could all face the possibility depending on other results be relegated. To be honest i would expect it to be between st Mirren and Killie, a bit unfair though but so is the point deduction but thats the rules
34

We love fitba,

google! 13/03/2008 09:44:13
In my opinion, wiping Gretna's results would be a scandal. Why blame other clubs who've done well against them for their misfortune? They played the fixtures, and got the rewards for their endeavour... stripping these points away again is blatantly unfair. I say this without regard to how it might affect the league.

If Gretna go bust, surely a "fairer" solution would be to record all their remaining fixtures as 3-0 wins to their opponents, or something.

35

Gorgie's Finest,

13/03/2008 09:48:58
#34
And how would that be fair to award win to a team that havent played against them and might have been beaten or drawn the game?

Do the maths!!! Points deduction is the fairest way, each team then will still have played the other teams the same amount of times and final league standings would just be based on results against the other clubs. It may seem unfair and is to a certain point, but in the situation it is the only fairest way, unless you award all of gretnas games a win in which case the points difference between the teams would still work out the same in the end we would all just have extra points on the board, hibs would still only be 4 in front of Hearts.
36

Prof,

13/03/2008 09:52:41
#35 Reminds you of the time Hibs got the SPL rules changed to avoid relegation.
37

Gorgie's Finest,

13/03/2008 09:56:27
#36
Haha yeah i remember that vaguely, you can sense fear amongst the hibs fans, its panic stations now, they were all gettin ready to save up their giros for that once in a blue moon trip into europe and it could just turn out to be the usual portobello trip. Still it can be nice down their no-one will laugh at them for wearing their sombreros and playing dodge the dog dirt or spot the brown floater in the forth
38

Prof,

13/03/2008 09:57:49
#37 LOL
39

dundee8cologne1,

Broxburn 13/03/2008 10:06:20
I wasnt aware of the rule that another club has to go down - that is interesting! the arithmetic of £30k per game against a club with no assets to pay it back just doesnt stack up. I have no axe to grind with Gretna but it looks unfeasible for them to survive. Most clubs have at least a core support - say 3 to 5 thousand - that an accountant can at least play with for income. Gretna?

40

We love fitba,

13/03/2008 10:07:18
#35. Think it through... if Gretna can't fulfil any of their remaining fixtures, then the opposing team gets awarded the 3 points by default. That's pretty straightforward... it's what should have happened (but didn't) a few years ago, when Estonia failed to turn up on time for their match against Scotland. In that case, the match was rescheduled, but there will be no chance of rescheduling this time around.

It's not necessarily "fair", because not everyone has played the same number of fixtures against Gretna, but we are where we are and a solution needs to be found.
41

AJ Fife,

13/03/2008 10:08:37
Nevermind....there is some good news however, East Fife will secure promotion this Saturday!
42

Black & White Triumph,

Greenhill road.......soon 13/03/2008 10:09:55
As a Bud of good repute, wiping the results is fairest and in the rules, apparently, but another team being relegated, WHY, i know that we do not deserve to be relegated as we are better than Gretna who are no more, if another team enter the senior ranks and start at league three then as long as each promotion stays as is each league will then have their alloted quota and all is ok again. Expunging one team and relegating another will mean an imbalance in the premier league unless two get promoted and so it rolls down the leagues. Gretnas misfortune should not be visited on another
43

GrahamL,

13/03/2008 10:10:52
#9 sets out the SPLs rules on what happens if a club ceases to operate:
- playing recored may be expunged
- relegation places shall be reduced
So that would suggest no relegation from the SPL if Gretna go out of business. The "may be expunged" is a strange one though. It would seem that the only fair way would be to do so - as clubs have played Gretna a different number of times. I definitely don't see any mention of awarding the outstanding games to the opponents, or anything like that. The exact approach seems to be down to the SPL themselves, and who knows what they'll come up with...
44

Another voice,

13/03/2008 10:13:21
#30 I've been saying for sometime that the derby would be the european decider. Hearts to win 0-1.

After reading a few of the comments posted i have to agree that wiping out all of gretna's fixtures is the only fair way to do it. Doing anything else will not make the league a level playing field and will open up the spl to a legal challenge.

I also think that the spl have to take a long hard look at themselves today. Gretna were never going to make it through the season let alone put up a credible fight when they are forced to play "home" games 150 miles away. Raydale maybe not the best ground but it would have fitted gretna's need in the short term until it could have been redeveloped.
45

Libby Hibby,

Edinburgh 13/03/2008 10:14:48
#35
You say 'Points deduction is the fairest way.'
Your argument might have more weight if your team wasn't in line to be one of the main beneficiaries.
IMO the fairest approach is the one that has the LEAST effect on the present position of all the other teams in the SPL. That has to the award of a 1-0 win to each of Gretna's opponents up to the split. That affects only FOUR fixtures (and arguably wouldn't be very different from the outcome of those games if they were played anyway). Compared with that, to expunge TWENTY NINE games already played is a draconian measure which has a massive impact on who is likely to qualify for European competition next season, and a significant bearing on who does/doesn't make the top six at the split.
46

We love fitba,

13/03/2008 10:20:34
The Genuine Mario... it's looking increasingly likely that the money will NOT be found, pal, hence this discussion. Did you read this article before commenting?

Unless you've heard from Vlad that he's about to stump up - I can't imagine anyone else willing to throw good money after bad.
47

Gorgie's Finest,

13/03/2008 10:20:36
#45
What a game that will be as well, if mixu can bottle it big time against rangers he'll need a lorry full of pampers for a euro decider derby match haha.

I feel the fear eminating from down leith and easter road way now.
48

Gorgie's Finest,

13/03/2008 10:24:48
#47
Another one in fear i take it, how can you possibly add points to a team when a game hasnt been played do you honestly see that as a fairer way or is it just because you dont want to lose 9 points?

Expunging all results means EVERY team in the SPL will have played the same amounnt of games against the SAME teams, and therefore the results against those teams are what counts towards league standings, had hibs got better results against other teams there wouldnt be a problem would there? but its still the same teams everyone else has faced.
49

We love fitba,

13/03/2008 10:28:53
#45 Another voice...

"I've been saying for sometime that the derby would be the european decider. Hearts to win 0-1."

Jesus wept. Here are the facts:

1. No guarantee there will be another Edinburgh derby this season.
2. If one of the Edinburgh teams is still in with a chance for a European place, that would be something. For both of them to be there is pushing it.

50

GrahamL,

13/03/2008 10:30:00
#45 Good point. The rise of Gretna from non-league to the top league in 5 years was fairytale stuff - and I think the SPL didn't want to put a dampener on that by a technicality, they were caught up in the excitement of it all. As a result they were willing to let Gretna find a way round the rules, in a way they wouldn't have for -say - Falkirk. Gretna grew too quickly, and weren't sustainable. They shouldn't have been allowed in the SPL.
To be honest, given whats happened of late they'd probably be struggling right now if they'd been kept down in the SFL - but not to the same degree.

If they do go out of business, it is a real shame for the Gretna staff, for the players, and for anyone who is owed money by the club. And the SPL is at least partly responsible for it.
I'd like to see them saved for the rest of the year and let them find their level in the SFL, but... who knows?

By the way, the £30k they need is for their away trip to Aberdeen - in the short term could the game not be played as a home match for Gretna? It would at least give them a few more days to find someone to step in?
51

Gorgie's Finest,

13/03/2008 10:30:42
#52
Its not just been said on this paper m8, the points expunging is actually the SPL rule it has been said on many other news sites and forums including the BBC have run it in their stories. However as has already been pointed out it wouldnt be the first time the SPL have bent the rules to suit others ie rules bent so hibs could avoid relegation and the biggest rule bender was the one that has caused this situation in the first place and that was allowing Gretna into the SPL. Falkirk were denied because they werent allowed to groundshare so why should Gretna have been given permission to do so.
52

Gorgie's Finest,

13/03/2008 10:37:03
A point a lot of people seem to be missing as well with regards to the Gretna situation is the Inland Revenue are seeking 350,000 and are applying on monday for liquidation, so basically even if the £30,000 they will not find £350,000 not when they are struggling to find £30,000 so its looking very likely they will either be gone by today or by next week still meaning their fixtures will not be met. Remember the Tax man comes first a company goes into administration or folds, before any other creditor
53

A Clamper,

Edinburgh 13/03/2008 10:40:43
Could make for an interesting relegation scrap with everyone from Hearts down to St. Mirren trying to avoid the drop.
54

GrahamL,

13/03/2008 10:46:14
#57 Good point. The problem is a lot bigger than getting this £30k, and for someone to stump up £30k in the hope that they can find £350k is unlikely - unless they find someone willing to bankroll the whole club again. And Gretna just don't have a huge cash-rich fanbase.
I guess it's a shame that it's this £30k that'll do for them - as I say coudl the game not be switched, or postponed, to give them an extra few days? 24 hours to, effectively, find £400k+ is simply unrealistic...
55

Another voice,

13/03/2008 10:48:21
After watching the apprentice last night and reading this it certainly shows the gulf in finances between the epl and spl.

Louise Redknapp got her hubby (a very average and injury prone player) to pay £30k for a ticket to enter a charity aution, Mike Ashley the guy who owns newcastle paid £100k for 3 tickets. When that is compared to gretna who can't find £30k to keep the club alive its really gobsmaking!

Maybe gretna should apply for some sport releif money....
56

Gorgie's Finest,

13/03/2008 10:48:39
#58

As i pointed out Hibs could also be drawn into that depending on how theirs and other results go, but yes your right would make a helluva batttle not just for relegation but for top 6 and for Europe, probably one of the most exciting finishes to a season, albeit it is sadly at another teams expense
57

TRAM MAN,

Edinburgh 13/03/2008 10:52:44
If Gretna go under.

Current table

Pos Team P Pts
1 Rangers 27 68
2 Celtic 28 65
3 Dundee U 30 46
4 Motherwell 28 46
5 Hibs 29 44
6 Falkirk 29 37
7 Hearts 29 36
8 Aberdeen 29 34
9 ICT 29 33
10 Killie 29 28
11 St Mirren 27 27
12 Gretna 28 6*
* 10 Deduction



Revised Table

Pos Team P Pts
1 Celtic 26 59
2 Rangers 24 59
3 Dundee U 27 43
4 Motherwell 25 37
5 Hibs 26 35
6 Falkirk 26 31
7 Hearts 26 31
8 Aberdeen 27 30
9 ICT 27 28
10 Killie 26 24
11 St Mirren 24 24


58

petegeneva,

geneva 13/03/2008 10:53:09
all these Yams blithely assuming that once Gretna go out of existence then the split will be top six - bottom five. What if the SPL decide a split of Top 5 - bottom 6? That would assist the OF in their fixtures backlog giving them one fewer game to play post-split.

I just can't see the SPL removing Gretna's results because it would be seen by Rangers as favouritism to celtic, since Rangers would lose 9 and celtic would lose 6.
whatever happens it certainly will make the last few weeks of the season a bit more exciting for the Yams fans.
59

Montford's Jaicket,

Hanging around 13/03/2008 10:53:17
Anyone else remember the Airdrieonians collapse of 2002? After the Diamonds disappeared, only 1 team was relegated from Div 1, i.e. 2 were promoted, as had been planned at the start of the season. Taking that as a parallel, if Gretna FC fail to exist (which is a possibility) then one team will be promoted to the SPL and none relegated. Of course, the Airdrieonians scenario was all within the SFL, not the SPL so the rules may differ but the principle may be similar.
60

Gorgie's Finest,

13/03/2008 11:06:04
#64

Celtics game against against gretna wouls still to be played, i think everyone can assume celtic would win that game in which case it wouldnt have made any differance to the table or points difference between celtic and rangers as both would have won all games against gretna. where it does make a slight difference is celtic will have a free week of football, which could never be helped anyway if Gretna fold. The fact Gretna took points from other teams is where the points difference between them occurs. Simple maths my friend

#65
Yes your correct and it would be the simplest thing for the SPL and SFL to allow the promoted team into the SPL with no relegation maintaining the same level of teams and promotion of one by one team in each league with no relegation then allowing applications from non league/junior teams for admission into the bottom division
61

tommyboay,

Letham 13/03/2008 11:07:13
and 2 promoted from 1st Division.

'mom the Dees
62

Lenny,

13/03/2008 11:14:28
Losing what tiny respect I had for Hearts fans with some of these comments. Cant wait for another team to go bust so that their own League position improves. I bet they wouldnt be so keen for points to be deducted if they had managed to win their games v Gretna.

Pretty sad really, they cant complain if people laugh if Vlad decides to stop playing.
63

Gorgie's Finest,

13/03/2008 11:20:48
#68
I would rather Gretna see out their fixtures irrespect of what others may think, while i believe Gretna should never have been allowed into the SPL in the first place i still dont like the fact a lot of people will be out of a job because of this and would hope something can be done to save Gretna if only for those peoples sake. Yes there will be a bit of banter as regards to us scoring out of it but would you expect anything less, after having what weve had rammed down our throats all season from Hibs fans, im quite sure if the shoe was on the other foot hibs fans wouldnt be long in giving it out.
64

Prof,

13/03/2008 11:21:56
#68 Come of it Lenny. Not one Hearts supporter has made any comment about being glad that Gretna is going bust. What is however highly amusing is watching Hibbies squirming at the thought of what will happen if the point deduction does take place. Silence of the Yams for one, has vanished without trace. Still no sign of Big Rob or Dublin Hobbo.
65

Gorgie's Finest,

13/03/2008 11:26:41
#71
Prof

The smoke signals are rising from easter road the smell of fear is in the air, or is that just the normal bad smell that eminates from leith/easter road way? anyway as you say they are squirming and sweating profously at the thought of points deduction.. bit like a rabbit caught in a cars headlights
66

Indigo Nightlight,

13/03/2008 11:30:12
#68

Don't agree Lenny, can't see any one who wants Gretna to go bust, Hearts fans or no. Merely discussing what will happen if they do.

It's a sorry state of affairs. I hope they finish their fixtures, get relegated and somehow find a way to keep going at a level that suits their means, which would be either near the bottom of the Scottish league or back in the Unibond. Id they don't, one man carries the can unfortunately.
67

Prof,

13/03/2008 11:30:38
#73 LOL
68

Lenny,

13/03/2008 11:32:01
Gorgie's Finest

I saw my team almost go out of business as a young lad. Was at all the Hands of Hibs rallys etc. I honestly wouldnt gloat to Jambos if we gained through Gretna's demise. Likewise I would not like to see Hearts go out of business either. I would be more than happy to see them spend time out of the Premier League due to 'living outwith their means' however. Too many Jambos imo get ambition mixed up with recklessness.

Prof,

I dont see any Hibees squirming. We would still be 4 points ahead of Hearts. That wouldnt be my main concern. We would be further away from Dun Utd, and a UEFA Cup place, thats what I would be p#ssed off about. If you want to use it for point-scoring however, on you go.
69

Anglo Jambo,

Chorley 13/03/2008 11:37:27
it has been mentioned Romanov help his buddy out I think the buddies act was severely dented when Gretna knew one of their players got a fellow professional sent off.
70

Media Scotland,

13/03/2008 11:37:55
I know this may sound a bit out of order, but if they do go bust, and all the players are free transfered, firstly can they be signed and if so, are any of them any decent?

Think that Yantorno boy was alright? But to be honest I've never really watched Gretna.
71

Gorgie's Finest,

13/03/2008 11:42:00
#76 Lenny
I was there when Hearts nearly folded as well and were saved by Mercer so im no stranger to possibly losing my club i have supported all my life

#77
Its something to check up i wasnt aware of any ligislation changes i was still under impression the Inland revenue being a Government body are due any monies first and foremost before any other creditors, and have the power to close you completely or take other action, this is why Gretna are noe being pursued in court on Monday for the 350,000 due to the Inland revenue and if that cant be met then its liquidation. Your right in the sense administration is supposed to halt liquidation etc but only if the administrators can agree terms with creditors etc and a sustainable work plave be carried on, if not then administrators themselves have to let the company go into liquidation, which is exactl what the present admins at Gretna are saying could happen.
72

Prof,

13/03/2008 11:46:38
#77 A company can only continue in administration if the appointed administrator is confident that there is a reasonable prospect of the business surviving. He said yesterday that the business model for Gretna is not sustainable. He then went on to say that unless £30k is forthcoming by noon today then the business would be wound up.
73

Anglo Jambo,

Chorley 13/03/2008 11:53:30
Motherwell Hibs and Rangers are due to lose 9 points it may be worth their while extending a gratuity payment to Gretna. £100 grand between them will do till the spilt.
74

Indigo Nightlight,

13/03/2008 11:57:22
Something that interests me is the two claims from former managers. Obviously the bigger one is Rowan Alexander. But the £100k claim I would assume must be from Davie Irons. I thought he walked out on the club to take the Morton job, does anyone have any more info on what exactly happened there?
75

Gorgie's Finest,

13/03/2008 12:00:32
#83
Good point if Hibs are so worried and Motherwell so worried it would be in their interests to give Gretna the money to keep them going
76

Lenny,

13/03/2008 12:07:17
Gorgie's Finest

Haha, I dont think any of those clubs have money to throw about. But one idea would be Hibs giving Gretna say £200,000 or so to keep them going. As an upfront payment for Fabian Yantorno who would sign in the transfer window.
77

jambop,

13/03/2008 12:26:23
# 81 read the link its a pile of doggie doo. The administrator would only allow a take over if he thinks the creditors would be better of and also he would want to see 30k in hard cash by lunchtime. The first bit is the important bit the 30k. Listening to the administrator yesterday I got the gut feeling that he knows this is a no brainer and totally unsavable situation. He is not there to make life easy for the SPL and have Gretna play their games to the end of the season,he is there to make sure that losses are minimised and that creditors are given the best chance of seeing some of their dosh.
78

GrahamL,

13/03/2008 12:27:56
Well guys. I'm just about to have my lunch, so I reckon it's pretty close to that lunchtime deadline. Lets hope something surfaces soon!
79

jambop,

13/03/2008 12:33:40
#90 Eh how am I wrong? I only gave an opinion about the situation regarding the need for the 30k and the point of veiw of the administator and a fact about the role of the administrator.
80

GrahamL,

13/03/2008 12:54:15
The administrator at Gretna is to make an announcement on the ailing club's future at 1415 GMT as a potential investor has stepped forward.
Football consultant Paul Davies told BBC Sport that he is fronting "a serious bid" for the club.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/g/gretna/7291519.stm
81

GrahamL,

13/03/2008 12:54:30
#94 Snap!
82

Libby Hibby,

Edinburgh 13/03/2008 12:55:33
#51 Gorgie's Finest
You have been all over this thread like a rash this morning,proclaiming 'Expunge! Expunge!' to one and all. While you sallivate at the thought of a four point windfall over your city rivals, and happily dance on the grave of a dying football club, you might care to remember that this issue isn't about Hearts or Hibs.
While there may not be much that can be done to help Gretna, the SPL has a duty to deal with this issue in a way that preserves the integrity of the league competition.
Clearly there isn't a perfect solution, only least worst ones. As myself and others have pointed out, to expunge past results makes most sense early in a season, it makes less and less sense the longer the season has progressed. As I point out in #47, expunging past results affects 29 fixtures already decided. Compared with that, allocating 1-0 resuts for 4 fixtures before the split is a small matter.
You keep asking 'How can you do that?' Well, the SPL just does it,that's how.
Your interest in 'fairness' is very transparent. To be honest I would have thought any football fan should be disgusted at the thought of his club or any other club benefitting from such a situation. Shows how much I know - your comments and others like you on this thread have been an education.
83

We love fitba,

google! 13/03/2008 13:02:30
Gretna update!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/g/gretna/7291519.stm

Apparently, the administrator is making an announcement at 14:15. Credit to Gorgie's Finest, it seems there is an interested buyer, but as they haven't studied the books yet, I'm not sure how positive this is.

Incidentally, the picture that accompanies this article... was that Mikey Stewart's work?!
84

We love fitba,

google! 13/03/2008 13:10:54
Apologies Mario, didn't even namecheck you properly!

85

AJ Fife,

13/03/2008 13:14:32
#95,

There can't be another nutter out there like the loony Mileson!!

Will Mileson be lifted for tax evasion?
86

jambop,

13/03/2008 13:14:49
#93 you just said "its a pile of doggie doo".
Thats my opinion of the content of the report not that it exists! If you don't agree with an opinion you done say - wrong! you normally agree to differ.

Let me declare my interest - I'm a Meadowbank Supporter /Livingston ..

It's no a nice situation , please dont gloat at them


I could almost have predicted that. Livingston another "leech" team that brought nothing and took all the could get at the expense of so called lesser teams who were not given stadium's but paid for them at the expense of having poorer playing staff. With any luck Livi will go the same way as Gretna total nonentities the pair of them.
87

jambop,

13/03/2008 13:30:11
#104 if that is the best you can come up with please do! Yes there was a bit of glory along the way... and thanks for putting one over our derby rivals in that final. Hey you forgot to mention it took us four attempts to beat the mighty Gretna! Dee Untd gubbed twice!! But in the end Livingston are indeed, like Gretna, nonentities. BTW he was not the captain.
88

jambop,

13/03/2008 13:40:12
#103 "If you dont accept football is a business like any other and money can buy success you are an idiot sir."
Never said anywhere that its not a business, only suggested that your success was gained on a playing field that was far from level (excuse pun) and at the expense of other teams in the league, and it was duely exposed with admin which followed. If this is your idea of running a business the I could quote yourself but I won't that sir would be very shallow indeed.


"you are an idiot sir"

Oh dear! Name calling what makes you think I am an idiot... Is it my opinion that the leagues would not know you had gone if you went bust tomorrow?
89

jambop,

13/03/2008 14:08:07
#106
Well , okay.

On your reckoning though , the "powers" that be remain the powers that be and no-one else is allowed to even try ?

How do you deduce that? I am pointing out that the "success" of Livi and Gretna were acheived due to other teams in the leagues not being given the same oportunities to spend money, they could not afford, on plyers wages. Livi were given a ground and Gretna were given permission to play while sharing a ground., tell me of another team in the prem division that has been given that!

"I'm not playing this game anymore. Time will tell if Hearts go the same way, then I'll have a good gloat."

If Hearts do fail they will do so from the position of investing in a team on exactly the same terms that another team in the division could have, not at the expense of having an advantage handed to them to enable them to. But fell free to gloat it's your perogative.
90

arvo part,

tallinn 13/03/2008 14:16:26
ok folks what would you rather...

1) a team relegated from the S.PEE.HELL and two teams promoted (to make up the numbers), most likely Dundee and Hamilton

OR

2) no relegation and only Div.1 champions promoted?

Personally i'd go for 1 cos it'd freshen things up, Dundee derby, Hammy's youngsters put to the test..?



91

Jealousy,jealousy,

13/03/2008 14:22:51
#110

I agree mate, number two would make the rest of the season far more interesting.
92

GrahamL,

13/03/2008 14:47:26
Gretna's appointed administrator David Elliot admits the club's situation has deteriorated since Wednesday and that their weekend match against Aberdeen is expected to be postponed.

The Scottish Premier League club officially entered administration on Wednesday and they now face a race against time to avoid closure after being ordered to find £30,000 to pay for Saturday's tip to Aberdeen

And at a press conference on Sky Sports News on Thursday afternoon Elliot has stated that the club now finds itself in a worse position and expects the trip to Pittodrie to be called off.

Elliot has stated that the club plans to continue to operate, but confessed all players are free to leave as their contracts have been breached.

"The position has not improved from yesterday, it has deteriorated and I am not convinced we will be able to put a team out on Saturday," said Elliot, of administrators Wilson Field.

"That would mean we are breach of league rules and would leave us open to be fined and face other penalties.

"Unfortunately we are running out of time."

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11781_3296392,00.html
93

GrahamL,

13/03/2008 14:50:04
#114 That's twice you've done that!
I give up, you're just too damn fast for me...
94

A Clamper,

Edinburgh 13/03/2008 14:57:20
It could be argued that Hearts have had an unfair advantage over other teams in the SPL (Not to mention the Old Firm)due to the disproportionate funding supplied to them by Romanov. Mario makes a fair point.
95

bonspeil,

13/03/2008 14:58:09
#97 You have to laugh at the sheer brass neck of Hibees accusing Hearts fans of "dancing on the grave of another club". Excuse me, but apart from the fact it doesn;t seem to be true from the comments, isn't that what we've been hearing Hibees say about Hearts for 3 years?? Tick tock, flats, administration, debt.... sound familiar?
96

THe jet,

Novara,Italy. 13/03/2008 15:08:46
Very sad state of affairs , but it seems that something has to be done.
Any club playing in whatever league should be made to have a "kitty" paid at the beginning of the season and kept by an outside body that ensures they have the money to pay bills in situations like this.
The whole story with Gretna be it fairytale to nightmare "reeks" of bad management and advice by backers,banks and also the SFA themselves.
I think the main problem was not being able to play at Gretna and the whole ground share saga.
I honestly hope as it's proposed that this person will step in and manage to save Gretna.
97

SouthSideHibs,

13/03/2008 15:17:07
Come on Hibees it's only fair that Hertz get the benefit of Gretna's demise, rescuing their season. Isn't it?

But when Vlad pulls the plug, refusing to continue to bankroll HMFC due to their level of debt and their income we'll ALL know what will happen. It'll be known as 'doing a Mileson'.



98

bonspeil,

13/03/2008 15:19:45
#120 For the one millionth time, Vlad can't just "pull the plug". Well he can, but he'd make a serious loss as him and the finance group UKIO he's associated with are funding the club. The debt you speak of - it's owed to himself effectively.

Isn't this a case of you wishing Hearts go under to rescue your club from eternally being behind Hearts - or at least finishing behind us in 20 of the last 25 seasons?
99

GrahamL,

13/03/2008 15:26:14
A thought. On the assumption that Gretna do get through this, and do play another game in the SPL. Would fans of other clubs be willing to go along in support? Show that we don't want clubs going out of business?
If they could get a full house for their remaining "home" games that'd have to help the finances, at least see them through to the end of the season - and Fir Park is reasonably well situated for most football fans in the country.
100

bonspeil,

13/03/2008 15:27:24
#122 Do you even understand football? I suspect you're not really a fan or maybe support a club in a one-team town. Football supporters always need something to keep their season alive. And often football comes down to local rivalries. When we have a situation in Edinburgh when one team - Hibs - finishing above the other - Hearts - is such an unusual situation, it's obvious Hibs fans will become obsessed with it.
101

bonspeil,

13/03/2008 15:28:42
#119 Accoridng to the BBC, only 10 players have agreed to play against Aberdeen. Hardly rallying around the club.
102

THe jet,

Novara , Italy. 13/03/2008 16:04:20
If only ten players have agreed to be available for the Aberdeen game well shame on the players who have said no.
I can understand being annoyed and down right Pi***d off by not being paid but they must remember that having a chance to put themselves in the so-called shop window (i think with all the news about going down there will be more than your average tv and newspaper coverage if the game goes ahead)plus i would think that putting in a few youth players (if there are some) would make up the numbers.
One plus fact is that youth players might still have the play for the jersey attitude rather than this is a job and i'm only here for the dosh.
Gretna players have had it good and were on wages higher than some smaller SPL teams when playing in the second and first division and with promotion and win bonuses which they had a great amount must have reeled in the cash in the last three to four years.
While none of us would work for nothing i have in the past both at home and abroad taken wage cuts to try and save my job sometimes to no avail sometimes though it worked, here we have some professional sportsmen who in the past haven't had to made do with £150.00 to £ 200.00 (or even less) quid clear a week to make ends meet and are now not even thinking about intelligent things like trying to impress other clubs but only about cold hard cash.
103

bonspeil,

13/03/2008 16:34:26
#126 you say, "Time will tell if Hearts go the same way, then I'll have a good gloat."

So do you like it when clubs go bust or not? Or just some clubs? Or what?
104

SouthSideHibs,

13/03/2008 17:45:14
#121, no it's cos I can't stand the jambo superiority complex, maroon, tynecastle, gorgie, or fools like you.

I always love the line, "he owes the debt to himself". Believe. You're situation is precarious and is only going to end one way.
105

bonspeil,

13/03/2008 20:54:27
#129 How do you expect people to react when people like you start spouting off about the club going under? Superiority complex - that's a new one. You refer to our vastly superior record against Hibs I take it? Not so much a complex as a reality.
106

Scunner,

Ellon 13/03/2008 21:38:13
Get back to the English non league where you belong. Keep the Scottish league for Scottish teams.
107

Railway Stander,

Kirkcaldy 14/03/2008 11:01:08
Assuming they go to the wall, re. promotion and relegation/ restructuring, would this work?

- No relegation from SPL
- One promoted from SFL 1 (as currently)
- Bottom club relegated from SFL 1 (as currently)
- Have play-off SEMIS between 9th in SFL 1 and 2nd - 4th in SFL 2 (as currently), but NO PLAY-OFF FINAL, i.e. one more team is promoted to SFL 1/stays up, thereby making up the "lost" team in SFL 1
- Ditto for SFLs 2 and 3
- SFL 3 is then "lacking" a team - allowing one to be elected at the bottom level.

Now who would you pick? Another Highland Leaguer, or someone else?




 

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