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Dream over as Gretna teeter on the brink of ruin

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Published Date:
11 March 2008
GRETNA yesterday filed for administration at the Court of Sessions in Edinburgh after just 28 games of their maiden Premier League season and six years on from the club's election into the Scottish league.
A board resolution was passed on Friday night to proceed with a course of action set to trigger a ten-point deduction. It will leave the Dumfriesshire side on just six points – 21 adrift of 11th placed St Mirren, who they play tonight in a rearranged fixture at Fir Park, Gretna's temporary home ground. A loan made available from the SPL has made it possible for the club staff to be paid this week, but control of Gretna will pass into the hands of administrators Wilson Field. The Sheffield-based firm has already had experience of football administration with Darlington but face a Herculean task at Gretna, whose last game, against Dundee United, was watched by record low attendance of 501 for a top-tier game in Scotland.

Gretna vowed to complete their SPL fixtures but are braced for a fight for survival, with the players set to learn their future in the coming days. Brooks Mileson, who bought the club in 2003, is still recovering from a brain infection. Although released from Newcastle General Hospital last month there has been no sign of the Carlisle-based businessman being ready to cover the club's financial liabilities. Reports at the weekend raised doubts regarding the state of his own financial affairs.

"He was an incredibly wealthy man when he came to Gretna," said chairman Ron MacGregor yesterday. "I think that has diminished a bit, but we are not privy to the details. I think there may have been a dip there.

"This is perhaps the question we can only guess at at this moment," he continued. "Whether he will come through this illness and say, 'hey, wait a moment. I don't want to finish on this note with Gretna'. All I can say is Brooks' passion for Gretna has been amazing over the years. I can't think he won't be interested in what we are doing in the future, but at the moment his recovery is the priority.

"Not long ago he celebrated his 60th birthday," added MacGregor. "There was every expectation he would continue steering the club. He is an experienced financier and accountant by profession. We trusted his judgment regarding the financial affairs of the club."

MacGregor admitted it was the end of Gretna "in terms of the rise and rise," with relegation now inevitable. Tonight's clash with St Mirren will take the form of a wake with the players still in limbo. The squad trained as normal yesterday at Raydale Park and afterwards met with PFA Scotland chief Fraser Wishart. His experiences with players at Motherwell, Livingston and Dundee, other clubs plunged into administration when in the SPL, saw him struggle to be optimistic. "Having been involved in this situation many times before I know the consequences for players are not good," he said.

"It's a testing time mentally."

GRETNA'S FALL FROM GRACE...

Gretna pay high price for living the pipe dream

MacPherson tells Buddies to be wary of Gretna backlash


CLUB MUST APPLY TO SFL

GRETNA will have to formally re-apply for membership of the Scottish Football League at the end of the season if the club survives its move into administration.

With relegation from the SPL now all but certain, Gretna will be required to satisfy the SFL management committee they are able to continue in the First Division as a viable concern.

The condition of Raydale Park, part of which has been bulldozed since Gretna entered into a ground-sharing agreement with Motherwell in order to play in the SPL, would also be assessed by the SFL.

"For the moment, Gretna are members of the SPL, so it would not be appropriate for us to speculate on their situation," said SFL operations executive David Thomson.

"All we can do is monitor developments and wait and see what happens after the SPL season finishes on 18 May."

If Gretna went out of business or were deemed unfit for membership of the SFL, the organisation would face a short time scale to decide whether to elect a new member club or carry on with just 29 teams next season.

ROAD TO RUIN

• 18 July 2007 – Davie Irons confirmed as Gretna's head coach for new season. He guided team to First Division title after manager Rowan Alexander took sick-leave midway through the previous season.

• 4 Aug – Alexander refused entry to Fir Park for Gretna's first SPL game after claiming he is there to perform his managerial duties. Gretna lose 4-0 to Falkirk.

• 22 Sep – Gretna secure first SPL victory, a surprise 3-2 win over Dundee United.

• 6 Nov – Alexander formally dismissed as manager. He confirms his intention to appeal at a press conference the following day.

• 2008: 12 Feb – Club confirms owner Brooks Mileson admitted to hospital, with tests revealing he has a brain infection.

• 18 Feb – It emerges players and staff have not been paid, with Mileson too ill to perform his weekly signing-off of the payroll.

• 19 Feb – Irons and assistant Derek Collins resign and join First Division Morton. Director of football Mick Wadsworth takes over as caretaker manager.

• 21 Feb – Mileson released from hospital.

• 6 Mar – Crowd of just 501 – an SPL record low – watches defeat to Dundee United.

• 7 Mar – Gretna board resolves to call in administrators after meeting debt advisers.

• 10 Mar – Club officials file formal notice of intention to move into administration at the Court of Session.

The full article contains 954 words and appears in The Scotsman newspaper.
Page 1 of 1

  • Last Updated: 10 March 2008 11:25 PM
  • Source: The Scotsman
  • Location: Edinburgh
  • Related Topics: Gretna FC
 
1

Raymond James,

Dublin 11/03/2008 00:11:58
Gretna deserve everything they get. They were never a football club - they were a rich man's toy who exploited Scottish football for a personal ego trip. The SFL must stand strong and not put up with anymore false promises from this outfit and if they do not meet the criteria to join the SFL then throw them out. There are plenty of small local proper clubs in the Borders or Highlands who deserve a chance in the SFL. This has been the worst example ever in Scottish football of money ruining the game.
2

Raymond James,

Dublin 11/03/2008 00:18:11
Gretna deserve everything they get. They were never a football club - they were a rich man's toy who exploited Scottish football for a personal ego trip. The SFL must stand strong and not put up with anymore false promises from this outfit and if they do not meet the criteria to join the SFL then throw them out. There are plenty of small local proper clubs in the Borders or Highlands who deserve a chance in the SFL. This has been the worst example ever in Scottish football of money ruining the game.
3

Fayneant,

NZ 11/03/2008 00:24:41
1/2 - I agree with your comments on the Gretna adventure, but 'worst example of money ruining the game'?

I'd vote for Dundee's Italian experiment for that accolade.
4

Gorgie's Finest,

11/03/2008 01:14:15
I can give you two other examples of money ruining the game in Scotland, or at least ruining Scottish teams and players development all through the 90's and at the start of the new millenium and thats Celtic and Rangers, Rangers inparticular when they first started bringing in all the foreign players, it is only the last season or two we have witnessed a change in policy at Ibrox (more o under Walter Smith) where they are fielding more Scottish players, this is mainly down to Murray not putting in as much investment now. Celtic meanwhile although they have a good few Scottish lads in their team still bring in the foreigners whenever an opertunity arrives. As with Rangers for that matter. Im not saying we shouldnt have any a good balance is always welcome.
5

J J MAROONER,

11/03/2008 01:20:58
4#
GF - You are up late tonight/morning!
6

Colin P,

11/03/2008 01:27:01
4
While I do agree with you, I must add Romanov at Hearts. He came in with false promises and now floods the team with poor eastern European players.
I wonder what's going on in his head. Is it all about the property? If so, then he's ruining Hearts so that there's no claims left.
7

Jon Bon Jovi,

11/03/2008 01:51:37
off course romanov has to be included, 40m debt going on 80m debt if they get their new stand.....
8

Brendan the Scozzie,

On the chain gang... 11/03/2008 02:29:01
Surely there must be a wee Ukrainiane submariner, sitting at the bottom of the sea goin, 'Hmm aye fancy a wee Scottish fitba team. Would do wonders for ma pension fund....lets see...'
Thats all Gretna need, countless black market dollars swooshing about, new 40,000 seat stadium and EC every year. Bring it on....or does this sound familiar?
9

EhMindOGillie,

Hong Kong 11/03/2008 03:21:48
#3

The difference between Gretna and Dundee is that we (Dundee) have a 105-year history and a fan base which rallied round after the Bonetti fiasco to save the club. We were never going going to die because we are a living, breathing club with a proud and strong beating heart. Gretna never had any of that, nowhere near it. So to hell with your spurious comparisons.

Dee Till Eh Deh
10

EhMindOGillie,

Hong Kong 11/03/2008 03:29:32
and another thing...I'm not paranoid. No-one likes us......but we don't care.

Dee Till Eh Deh
11

Starchief,

11/03/2008 07:19:46
Maybe we ought to go the German route, where clubs are for the community rather than the businessmen.

Gretna should never have been allowed in on the first place. The likes of Gala Fairydean had a far bigger claim for the south. In saying that, Gretna fans had a magical adventure that I'm sure will be the talk of the town for decades to come. I wonder if fans of Alloa, Brechin, East Stirlingshire etc would swap that for their long-term but unexciting trip.
12

whateverthename,

11/03/2008 07:45:57
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/livingston/7288410.stm
do we have another Hearts in the making ?
13

Lion-O "Lord Of The ThunderCats,

11/03/2008 08:07:41
Killie, ICT & Livvy proved in the past that it's VERY easy to buy your way up the divisions in Scotland. The difference with Gretna is that those 3 teams have a decent catchment area for fans and can therefore sustain it.

Must admit it has made me smile the Fraser Wishart quotes bleating on about his members rights. Gretna punted a full team in January and replaced them with loan signings and there was not a peep from Wishart.

Is this the same man who said that the Webster decision was a "great" day for footballers, yet here we are a couple of months later and his members are nearly on the dole. Bet the vast majority of his members wish he spent as much time looking after them as he does with the millionaire slaves forced to reject £18k a week deals.
14

GM,

11/03/2008 08:22:53
@1 and @9

a perfect summary of why this whole fiasco is a stain on Scottish football.

Gretna as a club and the SPL (and league) rode roughshod across clubs with hundreds of years of history all for money, that could never be sustained.
15

busbyfh,

11/03/2008 08:27:51
Bailed out by the Rangers PL (sorry SPL) due to the matter that if Gretna went to the wall right now , the points by teams gained from them would be wiped out - And guess what would happen then.......
16

Jam Tarts 1874,

On the Rebound 11/03/2008 08:32:43
Lots of comments on here demonstratinig everything that is wrong with the Scottish nation.

Let's all just keep our heads down and have nothing but contempt for anyone who dares to put their head above the parapit.

Should Celtic and Rangers be forced to demolish the stadiums they built with Fergus McCann and David Murray' money? Should Hearts and hibs be forced to give money back to Tom Farmer and Vladamir Romanov?

The small minded jealousy of some of the above comments is staggerinig - no wonder Scotland is no longer a country to be proud off.
17

GM,

11/03/2008 08:37:24
@16 jealousy?

The difference between Hearts, Rangers, Celtic etc etc who have all had flirtations with 'money-men' for good or bad in the past is that these clubs have solid foundations, steeped in hundreds of years of history together with fan bases that will always ensure survival.

Gretna were a 'rich man's' plaything that a few short sighted greedy people welcomed with open arms, knowing full well that this particular dream could *never* have a happy ending.

So no, its not jealousy or small-mindedness... simply reality (which few football fans seem to be able to distinguish through their rose-tinted romantic view of the game).
18

Gerry M,

11/03/2008 08:38:03
4

You are either a Hibee on the wind up or incomparably stupid.
19

GM,

11/03/2008 08:41:08
£5 says Gretna will be division 3 within 5 years - and best of luck to them.

*that* will be their rightful place in the game (sorry if that wee bit of reality doesn't sit well with the 'boy done good' brigade).
20

GersFanOfFitba,

11/03/2008 09:06:19
It's a shame for the players and staff of Gretna that this has happened, but the writing has been on the wall since january 2007, for me.

I don't see how Gretna should ever have been admitted to the SPL, anyway. There are plenty of precedents (ie Falkirk) where lack of capacity meant "no way, jose".

21

Starchief,

11/03/2008 09:13:45
#13 "Killie, ICT & Livvy proved in the past that it's VERY easy to buy your way up the divisions in Scotland"

ICT?! Who did we buy? Only Niculae is on expensive wages (not payed by the club). The majority of players we've had (and still have) are home grown. Many having come through with us from the Highland League. Our buys have been low costs from Ross County (mainly) or other 'lower league players' like Dodds, Mann and Bingham who were not exactly sought after at the time.
22

Shaken,

11/03/2008 09:16:24
~21 It would all even out. Each team plays each other twice! Muppet.

#16 - What's your point or are you just on the verge of suicide?
23

GrahamL,

11/03/2008 09:22:58
Ach, I said this yesterday when it was first announced - the fans have had a great ride, and I think deep down always expected to end up settled at a level their fanbase could sustain (2nd/3rd Div?). But the tragedy here is that it hasn't come through Mileson slowly withdrawing his money/interest and allowing a slow slide down the divisions - the talk from the SFL even casts doubt on whether they'll be in the 1st Div next year, with no ground, no monet and potentially no players will they end up back in the non leagues?
The fact that they've now gone into administration will impact countless other people - the small guys who won't get mentioned here. The reserve team/youth team players now desperately looking for clubs, the traders who are owed money by Gretna. Thats where our sympathies lie. I don't believe the fans expect any sympathy, they knew as well as everyone else did that this wasn't sustainable, but its the bystanders whose livelihoods are on the line because of the spectacular end to this story.
24

GersFanOfFitba,

11/03/2008 09:49:09
They're in administration, which makes it likely that thet'll survive in some form until the end of the season, I should have thought.

On the other hand, since raydale park was demolished, they're very unlikely to be re-admitted to the SFL, which means that I think that they will not be there next season.
25

GersFanOfFitba,

11/03/2008 09:50:23
(*) I should clarify my last comment: Since they'll have to re-apply for admission to the SFL, and if they don't have a ground, I don't think that they'll play in the 1st division next year.....(or any of the SFL divisions...)
26

Roy,

11/03/2008 09:56:15
The ten point penalty is really kicking a man in the guts when he is down. How is that meant to help?
27

Laughing at The Jambos,

11/03/2008 09:58:44
#4 DAFTEST CORGY
(aka VICTORIAN)
What a bl00dy cheek. You pontificate as usual through your backside when, as a Jambo, you "support" (albeit from the comfort of your fireside) a club who field as many, probably more, foreigners than any other in the recent history of Scottish football.....but is your post made as an attempt at irony...not a bit of it....just the usual "the world, referees, SFA, SPL, Edinburgh Council,West of Scotland press, Glasgow police, and European adjudication committees, etc etc".
Your paranoia even extends to using multiple identities on these sites, with the second post under a second pseudo (often within seconds of the first) inevitably "praising"your FIRST post. You Sir, are a sad and badly disturbed individual with little to add to the on-going scottish football debate, save reminding us that paranoia and flawed logic still abounds down Tynecastle way.
Get help please..get it NOW.
28

Laughing at The Jambos,

11/03/2008 10:02:40
#16 JAM TARTS 1874
What a shame....a truly GENUINE shame.......I was with you all the way on this one............UNTIL that is, you TOTALLY spoiled it by condemning a whole nation (possibly yours, and CERTAINLY MINE)without any basis beyond your own inherent negativity.
Sadly...you just end up making a truly shameful posting !!
Comes with being a Jambo I'd guess !!
29

Gorgie's Finest,

11/03/2008 10:05:38
#4
I can agree Romanov is not helping i didnt make those comments without thinking the same about the situation at Hearts at present.

#11
You mention the German route, I listened to that football phone in for first time in ages last night, it was interesting to hear on that how the Germans run their League system with regards to financing and being allowed into it. All clubs are vetted and have to be able first to prove they can sustain themselves in the Bundesliga or entry is denied, this comes first and foremost before what size of ground they have, if they have undersoil heating etc etc. I do believe the S.P.L. have a lot to answer for, for trying to make the Scottish Prem. an elite league.

Also id posted yesterday regarding what might happen if Gretna actually go out of business before the end of season and cannot fulfill their fixtures, I was under the impression having read it elsewhere, that Gretna's points they gained against Teams would be given back to the clubs, however it is the other way around, all points any clubs have gained against Gretna will be deducted, this could have a major impact on the league standings, because as was stated lats night the two teams to benefit most out of that scenario would be Dundee UTD and Hearts.
30

Laughing at The Jambos,

11/03/2008 10:07:26

Somewhat belatedly, let me take the opportunity to wish a speedy recovery firstly and most importantly to Brooks Mileson, and to Gretna.
It ill befits fans of any club to berate this enterprise , especially those clubs who also have owners (often much less transparent than BM)who bring players and salaries to these clubs WAY, WAY beyond the clubs means.
Remove the mote from your own eye guys, and wish Gretna well........this does no good whatever to the game we all love, and there but for the grace of God(if there is one) go the fans of MOST clubs these days.
31

Laughing at The Jambos,

11/03/2008 10:10:54
#31 FUNNIEST CORGY
Nice to see you stick your head above the parapet for a wee while VICTOR...(or whoever your medication dictates you to be today).
You're welcome back......even if it just makes it easier to slag off Jambos, rather than have to look around for other candidates while you make yourself such an obvious target for ridicule and ribald laughter !!!
32

cumbrianexile,

Its in the name 11/03/2008 10:14:03
#13 Killie buy their way up the divisions? The oldest pro club in Scotland record signing of £340,000 dont think so.
ICT an amalgamation of two well established Highland League clubs.Dont think so.
I will give you Livvy though.
33

busbyfh,

11/03/2008 10:15:20
Laughing at the Jambos

The record for fielding non Scots in the last three seasons is held by FFFHibs - Twice having only two Scots on the field of play.

Comments please.
34

Gorgie's Finest,

11/03/2008 10:16:18
#29
You clearly have issues son, i suggest you seek help, You seem to be obsessed with me. I dont have or need multi psuedos to post on forums unlike yourself

Riley Hamish
Hine QC

I have little to add to a debate, thats rich coming from a mad stalker who continually infests every forum who has nothin to to say except to try miserably to bring everyone who posts down by your childish bile and drivel. I would like to say Im worrieed about you but to be honest i couldnt give a flying fcuk if you want to continue your one man multi personality crusade against everyone on the EN go for it, it only shows you to be the sad pathetic little man you really are. try geting a girlfriend or a boyfriend whichever your preference it might calm you down a little and help you with your issues.
35

G,

Bridgefoot 11/03/2008 10:16:42
#1 "This has been the worst example ever in Scottish football of money ruining the game"
Sorry this is nonsense!

The Old firm? Romanov at Hearts? The charades at Airdrie, Livingston, Dundee and Falkirk?

I have a soft spot for Gretna - and my team Dundee United have done our bit to keep them in the league...
36

Celtic Fan Steven,

11/03/2008 10:18:52
#4 POT, KETTLE, BLACK!

FC Kaunas of Gorgie.
37

Gorgie's Finest,

11/03/2008 10:25:32
#38
Refer to post #31 first paragraph please
38

Cathcart Boy,

London 11/03/2008 10:28:08
How exactly does an illness, even as sadly serious as a brain infection, stop funding? If Mileson is bust, he and his son should stop hiding behind that fact.
Raydale Park before bulldozing was not up to SFL standards. If they cannot play in proper conditions, let them go to where they can play in whatever league will have them
Other clubs with history, fanbases and willing volunteers have battled difficulties whilst the Gretna dream was applauded.
For an example of how not to show loyalty to players in difficult circumstances, and I sympathise with the young players,look at how quickly Davie Irons bailed out when the first salary payment was missed.
And a Sheffield firm, unknown in Scotland where certainly Bryan Jackson of PKF and Tom Burton amongst others deserve a high reputation amongst professional colleagues for work done on Motherwell, Dundee and elsewhere, with no experience of the Scottish football infrastructure, is appointed.
Brooks, get well soon, sincerely.
Gretna, exit stage left, please.
39

watcher4,

Edinburgh 11/03/2008 10:37:36
Gretna were going to the wall if Mileson hadn`t taken over. The SFL should have let either Gala or Preston Athletic in. A more viable proposition.
40

We love fitba,

11/03/2008 10:59:12
I think everyone has sympathy for Gretna's employees (all of them, not just the players) and fans, and on a personal level wish Mileson a speedy recovery. But this farce has done Scottish football no good at all, and I cannot feel much sympathy for Gretna's inevitable demotion. Mileson has been a fool.
41

Liz,

Edinburgh 11/03/2008 11:04:19
Its a shame Gretna had to play their home games so far from home, and I suspect that is the source of many of their problems. I wonder how much thought was seriouly put into potenially playing some of their games at Carlisle? Financially it could have made a huge difference to the club, after all it would have been a 12 mile round trip for the fans rather than trailing up the M74 to Motherwell.
42

Shaken,

11/03/2008 11:14:28
#25 - Muppet

Whether teams play each other thrice twice or nunce. If all points are deducted then everyone is on the same page. Sorry i didn't realise standard grade maths was beyond you. Also I'm sure you have other words aside from reitterating mine! Muppet
43

Life long jambo,

Edinburgh 11/03/2008 11:18:31
#41 Interesting point you make, re other clubs being more viable.

IMO, I think there are too many clubs in our 4 divisions and most of these are not viable as "senior" clubs. Most of the clubs in the lower divison are not viable and are run on a semi-professional basis (i.e. the players are not full time).

Given that the population of the country is circa 5 million people, and most of the population is in the central belt, Dundee, Aberdeen, Inverness and Perth, its difficult for teams outwith these areas to compete and be viable - especially now that money is king in football.

Generally I think football in Scotland has been killed-off in Scotland by money. In the 80's we had a reasonably competitive league but Murray (and Souness) changed the face of Scottish Football when the former invested heavily and Souncess brought in lots of players from England. AND THIS ISN'T A DIG AT RANGERS - Its just the way football developed in the later 80's and early 90's - wealthy people became involved with clubs for whatever reasons (e.g Jack Walker at Blackburn). Perhaps someone more enlightened can explain why this happened? Its happening again with Eastern European and North American businessmen (and it is mostly men).

The result of money being so key in the game means clubs try to buy success. Most fail, those that generally do okay are those that had a solid foundation in the first place. The rich get richer and the poor stumble along hoping for a white knight with lots of cash to try and buy success... and they still fall in the long term.

Showing my age, I preferred watching football in the 80's when there were at least 2 or 3 local lads playing for their local team. At least then there was some attachment.

Anyway, I think we should have 2 divisions - SPL of 16 teams (30 games), and second league of 10 teams. Someone else mentioned the German approach - seems reasonably. The teams that are not vialbe should have to play in the junior leagues.
44

Montford's Jaicket,

Not sure 11/03/2008 11:41:41
For the record, if all of Gretna's results were removed, the league table would look like this...

P W D L F A Pts
Rangers 24 19 2 3 57 17 59
Celtic 25 18 4 3 61 18 58
Dundee United 26 12 6 8 37 29 42
Motherwell 23 10 4 9 28 29 34
Hibs 25 8 8 9 32 31 32
Falkirk 26 8 7 11 32 40 31
Hearts 26 9 4 13 36 45 31
Aberdeen 27 8 6 13 30 47 30
Inverness CT 26 8 3 15 27 45 27
Kilmarnock 26 6 6 14 23 35 24
St. Mirren 26 6 6 14 17 44 24
45

Gorgie's Finest,

11/03/2008 11:50:49
#45
Very good points, I agree the league set up and structure in Scotland needs overhauling, Ive said for years now basing on the fact we have 40 teams in the League systems, that we should have 2 leagues of 20 playing each other twice a season, this cuts out the repetative games, we have a scenario where as has been shown this year already where you can play 4 league games against a team, then draw them in one of the cups and have to possibly play another 2 games eg Hibs v rangers and celtic v aberdeen, thats just in the scottish cup, theres also the possiblity you could draw same team in CIS cup and have to play a reply, that would be 8 meetings between the same teams in a season. At least playing each othr twice would add that little bit more excitement when a big game comes along ie a derby or against one of the OF.

I also believe it could make the league more competative and would allow teams to bring through young talent without fear of relegation. I mean teams like st mirren, dundee, killie, motherwell, ICT, then dundee utd, aberdeen hearts, hibs, and so on none of these teams would fear relegation from a league of 20, the smaller clubs would also benefit in the sense they will have their big games against the OF Hearts Hibs Aberdeen etc so would make more gate reciept and also tv revenue.

I would then have a system where possibly a junior or non league side could be promoted to the bottom division and one relegated as believe it or not some of those junior and non league teams actually have far more monoey that teams in our lower divisions and would sustain themselves better than those teams
46

Gorgie's Finest,

11/03/2008 11:54:04
#47
As i said earlier if that scenario were to unfold it would totally change the league and the standings Dundee UTD and Hearts being the most to benefit, I knew Hearts would only be within a point of Hibs with them having a game in hand i hadnt worked out the rest and as you have shown it could have a bearing on the outcome of the title as well.
47

Wayne Foster,

Behind Hibs Goal 11/03/2008 12:01:14
Well done, Montford's Jacket. Just goes to show that #44 is, to coin a phrase, A PRIZE MUPPET!!!!!

Think before you slag people off!!!
48

Hugh Hefner .,

11/03/2008 12:10:35
48 - I have to agree with you about overhauling the system. However, I'd be inclined to do it slightly different. 3 top leagues.

The top league would have 18 teams. Any team in the top league that wants (or has the resources) to field a second team in the bottom leagues is allowed to do so. This second team will never be granted promotion to the top league. This will enable top-tier teams to blood youngsters at an early age against men who were playing for their livelihoods. This is Stein's idea from as far back as the early 70's, designed to bring more yongsters through and is in fact more needed today than it was then.

A season should start around mid-feb and finish mid December. A summer break during June would allow for us to play in any major competitions and if not, the public get the chance to watch them and it doesnt compete with football. Pitches also get the chance to recover with grass growing better in this month.

This would allow for football to be played and watched in better conditions. The standard of the play would be higher and evryone is a winner. Plus, the SPL could earn extra revenue from the satelite companies as they can offer it to their customers as an alternative to 'no football during May, July and August.

49

Hugh Hefner .,

11/03/2008 12:13:06
Need to add, that the League Cup should be scrapped as its become a meaningless tournament.
50

SouthSideHibs,

11/03/2008 12:19:27
#51 Hugh Hefner

Sounds like a very sensible idea, one question how would we transition over to your new season..?

I'd also advocate a wage cap, akin to the way US Basketball is run. You can only spend a %age of your turnover on salaries, but you can chose to pay some players very well.
51

Gorgie's Finest,

11/03/2008 12:41:02
#53
The wage cap structure should not only be limited to Scottish football though for that to work, as you know if all Scottish clubs were wage capped players would just jumo ship to other countries far quicker.

#51
Intersting points about the bigger clubs or those with the resources being allowed to field a second team in a lower league, there is however a lot of flaws with that, eg if say a second rangers,cletic.hearts or hibs team was to win the lower league who would you promote? and also with these teams being in the scottish league system how would it work for scottish cups etc as they would have to be allowed access to cup competitions based on they are in the scottish league system.A lot of planning and re-shaping for that to come into effect. but good ideas though
52

Hugh Hefner .,

11/03/2008 12:50:44
53 - Have to admit, i never even thought of that. But anything can be done if you really want to.

If a suitable sponsorship deal can be set up and money secured, then up front payments to the clubs should see them cash-rich(ish) for a little while with the responsibility on them to budget for the initial winter breaks.

A mini league/tournament can be set up, with a trophy finish mid/late december. The novelty value should ensure the interest until then. It wil be a one-off.

Next, we go into the winter break from Late December to early Feb (I'd shorten this the first time just to allow clubs to get gate revenue) and then the new season begins and we get summer(ish) football and a better product.

Everyones a winner!
53

Hugh Hefner .,

11/03/2008 12:52:55
54 - No promotions, thats part of the deal, and the second team could be exculsively U21 or even U20.

Its how it works in Spain with Real Madrid and Barca opting to field teams 2 divisions below.
54

Brown Dirt Cowboy,

St.Andrews 11/03/2008 13:03:05
Apart from anything else - they were rank rotten !
55

mac1888,

Bute 11/03/2008 13:03:51
There are far too many clubs in the Scotland .All the pishy we teams lacking ambition should be booted into the amatuer leagues anyway!
56

Alastair the First,

11/03/2008 13:13:37
My firm is owed £75,000 by Gretna FC. It doesn't look likely that we will see much, if any, of this money.

It is disgraceful that the SPL have provided money to keep Gretna going until May, when they can wash their hands of the situation. The SPL should instead use the money to pay off some of the debtors, and Gretna should be expelled from the SPL with immediate effect. They cannot continue to trade as they are losing money and trading while insolvent means that the directors )or the administrators) are personally liable for any increase in debts.

I would hope that the SFL refuse to allow Gretna to be relegated - just as the SPL can refuse to allow promotion, the SFL should act now to make it clear that they are not going to be allowed into the SFL next season.

Bitter? You bet I am.
57

tartan tattie,

up north 11/03/2008 13:15:12
#43

as well as the problem of playing all games away from home, so were the 'away' team (apart from Motherwell). My suggestion is too late to save Gretna, but there are at least 2 advantages to it.
My solution, any team in the same situation as Gretna, without an SPL compliant ground be given one year in the SPL, where all home games are played at the opponents ground, so they play all games against Celtic at Parkhead for example. But get to keep the gate receipts less expenses.
Advantage 1: No single pitch is subjected to the amount of games that Fir Park has suffered.
Advantage 2: The club plays in front of decent crowds (at least 30,000 for games against Celtic and Rangers).
Advantage 3: They make money as the crowds would be bigger, allowing improvements to go ahead in their own ground.
I don't know what others think, but I beleive this is workable.
58

BEMUSED EXILE,

11/03/2008 13:17:29
Whilst I sympathise with #59's well thought-out and constructive point, I tend to go the other way.

Here's what we should do...

3 divisions of 16, each of a straightforward "once home and once away" basis, requiring only 30 league games per season, thus allowing a decent mid-winter break.

From a top division perspective, my understanding is that Scotland has earned 3 UEFA places as of 2009/10, and there is also a UEFA directive in existence which states that any member league which has a top division that doesn't require more than 30 games would be entitled to an additional UEFA spot, so we'd then have 4.

The two lower divisions (which would require the addition of a handful of new teams) would be split into a North Division and a South Division. This would mean more local derbies, less travelling for fans and presumably therefore bigger crowds and increased revenue.

The 2 bottom teams from the top division would be relegated and replaced with the champions of the two lower divisions.

How's that, folks?
59

Busymale,

11/03/2008 13:23:04
A sad day. Hearts next?
60

Starchief,

11/03/2008 13:23:09
#47 Why? ICT are one of the best run clubs in the whole SPL/SFL.
61

BEMUSED EXILE,

11/03/2008 13:29:20
BTO

Wasn't the film "Lost In Translation" set in Japan?

You seem to be living it!
62

Lion-O "Lord Of The ThunderCats,

11/03/2008 13:30:49
#22 & #34 I stand by what I said about those clubs buying their way UP the divisions as these clubs bought a higher standard of player than other teams in their division could afford. I take this to mean that those clubs therefore BOUGHT their way to promotion.

I don't say that this is a bad thing, just that it shows how bad our leagues are that this has been done 4 times now in the last 20 years.

If David Murray was to sell up and buy Berwick Rangers would anyone be surprised if they were in the SPL within 3 years?

Scotland has joke leagues and joke administrators running things. Why do we need the SFA, SFL and SPL to run 42 clubs - many of which are not fit to be called senior clubs - when the Scottish Cup has no sponsor and the SFL started the season with rumours of SPL2 and no sponsor? Too many blazers making decisions for self preservation rather than the good of the game.
63

Hugh Hefner .,

11/03/2008 13:44:43
62 - Yes, I would accept that, as long as its played in summer.

64

Starchief,

11/03/2008 14:17:54
#69 Who did ICT buy then? I struggle to think of a single player we paid money for until we signed John Rankin for a massive 65,000!
65

Rosscobhoy,

Glasgow 11/03/2008 14:48:37
A lot of sensible posts here with regards to restructuring the league. Problem is those running the game are too pig ignorant to change for the best as it may mean conceding to another of the ruling bodies.. The only solution to this would be for every club in Scotland to resign from their governing body, whether it be the SPL, Scottish League, SFA or SJFA and form one united body. Never going to happen though.
66

wes mantooth,

11/03/2008 15:41:36
we've all known for a long long time that the scottish leagues need restructuring but as has been said already, the people in charge would never go for it. i don't think some of the clubs would either, purely for financial reasons.

a 16 team top league playing each other would be ideal. while i can see the old firm and some of the lower spl teams/ upper 1st division teams going for it, i can't see more established spl teams like hearts, hibs, aberdeen and dundee utd going for it. only playing the old firm once at home would have a detrimental effect to their finances.

gretna never had the level of support to become a successful spl side. don't really see any comparison between them and caley thistle though. surely the caley thistle way to do it was the perfect example.
67

Whats the script?,

Wheatfield G 11/03/2008 15:46:54
As a Jambo i have to say this saddens me. Too much too soon methinks. "Breath of fresh air" is banded about too easily in Scottish Football but Gretna & Mileson really were. The TV programme that followed their 2005/2006 season was brilliant and showed how much the club meant to Mileson. A sad day.
68

wes mantooth,

11/03/2008 15:51:28
i don't think the spl's 6000 all seater stadium rule helped gretna at all. had they been able to play their games at queen of the south's ground i'm sure their attendances would've been a fairer reflection of their (albeit small) fanbase than it was shown at fir park.
69

BEMUSED EXILE,

11/03/2008 18:07:39
James

You're such an ANGRY poster these days. Chill out, my friend. A season without a trophy isn't a disaster. After all we've just endured two of them!

Remember, laugh, and the world laughs with you!
70

BEMUSED EXILE,

11/03/2008 18:47:59
James

Just one thought...

Is "smugger" a word?
71

Damn Dutch,

Netherlands 11/03/2008 19:12:41

After going through this with DFC cannot help but feel sympathy with the players and officials who will be out of a job.

Media certainly helped fuel the myth of "living the dream". Did anyone ever really think this was not going to end in tears ?
72

Timothy Malloy Esq.,

11/03/2008 19:45:48
62

Interesting breakdown BE. It's better than what we are currently doing.

Personally I think it should simply be two divisions of 16. The rest should be cast off as they are not sustainable as senior professional football clubs - these cast offs should be relegated to the junior ranks.

We have far too many football clubs for a small country and we need less.

Moving on, playing each other twice a season might take the bigotry out of the game. If the OF meet less it will mean less incidents and casualties after each game. So you may be onto something there - I would prefer to beat RFC four times a season unless we draw them in a cup competition, then beating them again is the icing on the cake - remember 2004 and the Whitewash when we won all 5 OF games - Sutty's last minute chip was sublime.

In summary, your theory is a decent plan but take a look at some of the issues -

1. The drop in revenues for the OF and lesser clubs. (gate and tv revenues)

2. The drop in interest - I know many fans look forward to the "big games - ie OF and Europe" and then beyond that they are not too bothered.

3. The two teams relegated from the top division each season disnae really work - What happens if it's Aberdeen and say Inverness - which one would play in the "South" league?

I still think we should:

1. Scrap the League Cup

2. Ban groundsharing

3. Sort out a bereavement policy

4. Have a winter break

5. Get back to a top ten and play 4 times - with two up two down on a play off situ.

No matter what we'd still be champs.
73

Timothy Malloy Esq.,

11/03/2008 19:47:45
bye the way BE

DEF: A smugger is;

A smarmy person who robs people in the street.

74

Timothy Malloy Esq.,

11/03/2008 19:54:48
89

BTO

Is the ref Thomas Graveson? Or is it Jim Duffy?
75

BEMUSED EXILE,

11/03/2008 19:56:01
Tim.

I saw the flaw with the possibility of 2 Northern teams going down, so I left it out. Artistic licence, we'll call it.

I quite agree with you that 2 straight divisions of 16 would be better, and would also lend itself better to Cup competitions.

We could return to the good old days of 8 sections of 4 in the League Cup, playing each other home and away before the SPL kicks off, let's say early July.

When TM and BE agree on something, you know it makes sense!
76

Timothy Malloy Esq.,

11/03/2008 19:56:07
or is it Al Murray?
77

Timothy Malloy Esq.,

11/03/2008 20:04:51
BE

What is your fascination with the league cup?

The attendances at this competition have been dwindling for years now and to be honest it has lost the public interest/imagination.

Why not scrap it or just let the lower leagues play for it and the winners get entry to the SPL.

Every year the OF are there or thereabouts in the Scottish Cup and Title plus they have European game as well plus most of them are internationals.

Tot that little lot up and your looking at

over 50 games...then you are asking for more games in the League Cup? Why...it's a non event has been for years and no European place is attached to it.



78

BEMUSED EXILE,

11/03/2008 20:20:24
Tim.

Scotland has an extra UEFA place coming up. There's nothing to stop it being for the CIS Winners. Besides, neither of the OF is worried about the European place attached to it, they just want to accumulate silverware. And then there's its part in the coveted "treble" which is always nice to achieve.

The trophy has been around longer than either you or me, and it still has meaning. I know that I'll be happy if we win it on Sunday. I know that Hibs fans were ecstatic when they won it last season. I'll bet that you were desperate for Celtic to make it their first trophy of the 90's when they played Raith Rovers at Ibrox back in '94.

Save the League Cup!
79

BEMUSED EXILE,

11/03/2008 20:26:52
Liverpool are in the exact same position for this game as Rangers will be when they kick off in Bremen, ie, 2-0 ahead, probably contrary to expectation.

I hope that we deal with the first half as well as they have.

 

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